SB 298 - Crossbow bill rears its ugly head

[TheTone]

Who decides what “disabled” is?

Years ago the Permit to Hunt from a Vehicle Montana had allowed disabled in behind some FS gates. The amount of disabled taking advantage of the program was off the charts until the truly disabled rewrote the criteria to meet the definition of disabled for the program.


Also a few years back I hunted with a guy on some deer drives. He was missing his right arm at the shoulder. He shot a long bow by drawing it with a leather tab in his teeth. He could shoot as well as anyone.

i know of one guy doing sheep hunts every year that’s “disabled”

I know another that hasn’t worked in years that claims to be disabled. Essentially all he does is hunt and it’s beyond easy to see pictures of him packing out tons of critters every year

 

[thomas89]

People that want to use crossbows in archery season want the benefits of being an archery hunter, without putting in the work and developing the skills that it takes to be one.
I.e. lazy

If there is a silver lining for those of us who want to keep non archery equipment out of archery season, it is, that mindset does not lend itself to success in the field, especially in a state with as low of a success rate as Montana.

That said, I still find myself agreeing with Buzz, in that I want to see Montana get it over with and decimate the remaining huntable elk as quickly as possible, so that people will start to get serious about making the changes to dispersement, season structure, and quota that need to be made. When archery season is only 10 days long and there are only 50 tags in a unit, it will matter a lot less what you use for a weapon

It’s not archery for sure. Anyone claiming they are an archer with a crossbow is a clown. But as long as it’s legal, as long as it goes through the proper channels to be legalized. Who cares?

Where is it decimating herds? I’ve hunted deer in Wisconsin where crossbows are legal during archery…still deer all over. I’ve hunted elk in Wyoming where crossbows are legal (both general and LQ areas) …still elk all over most units even still over objective. Of all the non-issues, this just is the most nonnest of issues.

There’s so many other hills to die on than the crossbow hill. What slippery slopes or can of worms is everyone so worried about?

 

[rogerthat]

It’s not archery for sure. Anyone claiming they are an archer with a crossbow is a clown. But as long as it’s legal, as long as it goes through the proper channels to be legalized. Who cares?

Where is it decimating herds? I’ve hunted deer in Wisconsin where crossbows are legal during archery…still deer all over. I’ve hunted elk in Wyoming where crossbows are legal (both general and LQ areas) …still elk all over most units even still over objective. Of all the non-issues, this just is the most nonnest of issues.

There’s so many other hills to die on than the crossbow hill. What slippery slopes or can of worms is everyone so worried about?

I agree with your comments regarding once it’s legalized. However in Montana it has not been legalized at this time. Therefore the discussion points everyone is hitting on is whether or not it should be legal for “disabled” folk or not. The concern is whether the definition of “disabled” will be abused as well as concerns with the increased efficacy of the weapon and its impact on the resource.

MT bowhunters produced some statistics on the abuse of “disabled” when crossbows were legalized in other states the last go around on this one. I may be able to dig them up as it definitely raised a red flag for me. Is this not concerning? I take it from your comments you think it should be legal and nothing to worry about but you don’t seem overly strong on that opinion. My concern is that a single legislator keeps pushing this same issue over and over for his own benefit. Not how we want government to work, at least not me. I don’t think this is a very popular idea to the Montana archers but I could be wrong.

I think with the current politics in the state, Molnar is going to eventually win on this one and the assault on sportsmanship and hunter ethics in Montana will continue. Who knows, legalizing baiting could be next. I mean read the North Dakota thread on it. It’s not that big of a deal right? We got to draw a line somewhere. For me, we are at the line. I’m drawing it.

 

[TheTone]

Is there a contingent of traditional crossbow hunters that dress like dorks and look down there noses at people that use compound crossbows?

 

[MTGomer]

It’s not archery for sure. Anyone claiming they are an archer with a crossbow is a clown. But as long as it’s legal, as long as it goes through the proper channels to be legalized. Who cares?

Where is it decimating herds? I’ve hunted deer in Wisconsin where crossbows are legal during archery…still deer all over. I’ve hunted elk in Wyoming where crossbows are legal (both general and LQ areas) …still elk all over most units even still over objective. Of all the non-issues, this just is the most nonnest of issues.

There’s so many other hills to die on than the crossbow hill. What slippery slopes or can of worms is everyone so worried about?

It’s not legal in archery season in Montana currently. That’s what the discussion is about-is if it should be. And I agree with you that there’s bigger issues. Montana is such a shit show that this is far from the biggest unfortunately.


The slippery slope is what happens in AZ, where high point holders want to hunt giant rutting bulls in unit 23,9,10 but they don’t archery hunt, so they get a doctors note to use a crossbow. They aren’t disabled, they’re just wimps.

 

[MTGomer]

It’s not archery for sure. Anyone claiming they are an archer with a crossbow is a clown.

To me, that’s all I need to answer the question of “should it be used in an archery season? “

“Is it archery?” Seems to be a good place to draw the line.

 

[PrairieHunter]

Is there a contingent of traditional crossbow hunters that dress like dorks and look down there noses at people that use compound crossbows?

LOL.

So if a guy shoots a recurve crossbow with fixed blade broadheads is that better than someone who shoots a compound bow with mechanical broadheads?

 

[300stw]

geez, lets just add a couple week crossbow season into our existing structure,,,, why are crossbow guys less important then muzzle loader guys,,,,,

 

[BuzzH]

To me, that’s all I need to answer the question of “should it be used in an archery season? “

“Is it archery?” Seems to be a good place to draw the line.

Is a modern compound with a slider sight, peep sight, trigger release, carbon arrows, plastic vanes, cables, strings, pulleys, 80% let off, yada yada really "archery"?

Seems "archery" hunters have pushed to blur that line to the point the line no longer exists.

I don't feel sorry for them...reap the whirlwind, clowns.

 

[TheTone]

Is a modern compound with a slider sight, peep sight, trigger release, carbon arrows, plastic vanes, cables, strings, pulleys, 80% let off, yada yada really "archery"?

Seems "archery" hunters have pushed to blur that line to the point the line no longer exists.

I don't feel sorry for them...reap the whirlwind, clowns.

But it cuts every way. Is a guy with a ballistics app, turrets, laser rangefinder, gps, etc ever going to give something up for the fact they’re more effective at killing?

 

[rogerthat]

Is a modern compound with a slider sight, peep sight, trigger release, carbon arrows, plastic vanes, cables, strings, pulleys, 80% let off, yada yada really "archery"?

Seems "archery" hunters have pushed to blur that line to the point the line no longer exists.

I don't feel sorry for them...reap the whirlwind, clowns.

Did someone wound a whole bunch of bulls with an bow and decide archery is not for them? Seems like I saw a photo with a Wyoming clown (looked a lot like ya) with a damn big bull taken with archery

Just needling ya Buzz! I would support any proposal that makes hunting harder. Unfortunately most want it easier nowadays

 

[Tomahawk]

Is a modern compound with a slider sight, peep sight, trigger release, carbon arrows, plastic vanes, cables, strings, pulleys, 80% let off, yada yada really "archery"?

Seems "archery" hunters have pushed to blur that line to the point the line no longer exists.

I don't feel sorry for them...reap the whirlwind, clowns.

Just so I understand correctly, your argument here is technology has gone too far so we should take it further. Is that correct?

Like others in this thread I'd say technology has gone too far so we should rein it in.

Much like baiting in North Dakota or buying guided tags in Utah, this is just another example of lazy people wanting something easy without having to put the effort in...

 

[rogerthat]

Just so I understand correctly, your argument here is technology has gone too far so we should take it further. Is that correct?

Like others in this thread I'd say technology has gone too far so we should rein it in.

Much like baiting in North Dakota or buying guided tags in Utah, this is just another example of lazy people wanting something easy without having to put the effort in...

Spot on. I would add with a few folks that legitimately probably do need an accommodation. Is the draw lock just that big of a PITA? Anyone experienced with those?

 

[sclancy27]

There is a cohort of archers in AZ that call for archery to be reduced to traditional bows only. I'm in favor of this. I would give up my compound today.

Crossbows without a way to rest it you are not shooting 100 yards. I've watched numerous people miss offhand shots with a rifle inside 50, like miss completely at an elk. I think I could hit an elk with a rock at 50 yards.

As far as the legislation, I'm against it for no real reason other than I'm grumpy and I don't want another outlet for Shitfluencers to make $$$ off hunting. Although, imagine a podcast/brand called the Gritty CrossBowman....it could really target the d-bags.

 

[MTGomer]

While we are on the topic, can anybody think of anything cringier than a bunch of fat, lazy pussies, that never served using wounded veterans as an excuse to get crossbows into archery season, or bicycles into wilderness or electric motorcycles categorized as non motorized, justifying raising wild species behind a wire to sell canned “hunts” etc? This is where the whole hunters need to stick together thing really falls apart with me. I don’t have a goddamn thing in common with those people, and if I ever start to, I hope somebody puts me out of my misery.

 

[BuzzH]

But it cuts every way. Is a guy with a ballistics app, turrets, laser rangefinder, gps, etc ever going to give something up for the fact they’re more effective at killing?

We do give up something, its called season length.

"Archery" seasons haven't been anything but extended in many cases even though technology has greatly changed.

Another fair note is that for the most part "archery" hunters do exactly zero to address over objective elk populations. They primarily kill bulls.

There's a reason why rifle seasons in WY are 10-14 days and archery are a month, including right in the middle of the rut and have given up ZERO.

Don't want to hear the noise and I'm not listening to archery hunters complain about advances in technology when rifle hunters HAVE given up something, while archery seasons continue to expand while technology also expands.

There is barely a difference between a vertical modern compound and a crossbow...just a fact.

 

[BuzzH]

Just so I understand correctly, your argument here is technology has gone too far so we should take it further. Is that correct?

Like others in this thread I'd say technology has gone too far so we should rein it in.

Much like baiting in North Dakota or buying guided tags in Utah, this is just another example of lazy people wanting something easy without having to put the effort in...

Good luck stopping archery technology...MT tried for a few years to keep lighted nocks out, that's toast.

Now try to take the wheels, trigger releases, slider sights, carbon arrows, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. away.

Good luck with that.

Being's how all those are "non-starters" and the "archery" hunters and associated "bow" hunters associations would come completely unhinged at even the mention of such...well, ever better luck with that.

Since all of that is true, find another shoulder to cry on, as I hope crossbows are legalized.

I feel no mercy for groups that do this to themselves.

 

[mtnkid85]

I have nothing to add, that hasn't already been said. I just want to point out theres some real gold in here... lol

 

[brian flatlander]

Montana really needs a muzzleloader season as well.

WITH SCOPES

 

[bigsky2]

WITH SCOPES

Yeah, just like the crossbows will have.