Saving camping spots on dispersed public land

[Phaseolus]

On our last trip to Utah I would bet the trailers parked in a campsite "saving" a spot outnumbered the ones that actually had people in them. I think they count toward the 16 day limit whether someone is in them or not.

I don't think anyone enforces the 16 day limit though.

It’s a 14 day rule in Colorado and yes, the USFS does not bother to enforce it. even when they are repeatedly notified about it.

 

[ccc23454]

Stay limits are not all uniform and some include seasons:i.e. bighorns after 30 september none! Remember how can they to some extent nor should they enforece limits, many tags are good for specfic zones, law where applicable typically requires you moving 5+airmiles, often that can be out of your hunt zones. Also the rule would then apply to backcountry camps etc. Not everyone has 5 day seasons and only 1 tag, i live in national forest 2 months every fall in wyoming and a month in idaho. Its not right to reserve camps but i didnt get my spots i have had for YEARS this past season including my cut firewood and benches because it looked like the midwest puked up a parking lot. Complaining like this is why states like idaho just blew up the system, adjust and find a new spot its not that hard i did it.

 

[mannmicj]

It’s a 14 day rule in Colorado and yes, the USFS does not bother to enforce it. even when they are repeatedly notified about it.

Here's a little thing folks don't know. For an Forest Service LEO to site someone, that LEO or another Forest Protection Officer (FPO) needs to see people at the dispersed site each and everyday and have it documented. To be an FPO all you need to do is take a 3 day training course. These folks can only site folks for minor things, but they can act as a witness for the LEO. FPOs normally have another duty on the forest, but hold the qualification incase they see something that needs sited or educated. The key is 14 consecutive days. If one of those days is missed, the clock starts over. The reason for all of this is really about the folks who live on the forest, but the rules apply to real campers/hunters as well. If an LEO goes to court and can't prove the person was there for 14 consecutive days, then it gets thrown out. That is why an LEO rarely wastes their time on this kind of thing. They will make contact and can educate the campers. Many will actually leave once that contact is made. That said. When push comes to shove, the LEO knows he needs to prove the 14 consecutive days, which is almost impossible to do with the lack of staffing.

One LEO can be responsible for several districts and even more than one National Forest. Oh and they can often be called out to assist other Federal Law Enforcement, because their training allows them to respond and assist with everything under the sun. Many days go by with zero LEOs available to a district or Forest. Then it falls on local law enforcement or state police. They will only assist will actual crimes or serious incidents. It's sad and something that isn't given enough attention when it comes to funding public lands. We need more LEOs.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I participated in a thread like this before and if I recall it got locked. Perhaps because some of the knuckleheads who leave their campers all over BLM and FS land are members on here and they got a little defensive....

I HATE seeing campers parked and left all season for people to "Show up on the weekend to use them"...I have seen this in both Colorado and Wyoming in hundreds of places over the years.

Bottom line is that the FS should lay heavy fines on these people who are leaving their campers and wall tents set up unattended for longer than the allowed period.

So, I will double down on my statement from a couple years back.

In my opinion you should get a maximum of 16 days to camp in a location.

After that your belongings should be considered abandoned/garbage/trash and subject to pirate law.

I bet you people would pull their stuff home with them if they showed back up and their camper was gone after it had been sitting there for a month.....

 

[fmnjr]

If it's a place you find attractive to camp at, just camp upwind a bit and pull an @OntarioHunter Poop Tip. I'll bet they take the hint and move along next time they show up.

 

[warmer]

I participated in a thread like this before and if I recall it got locked. Perhaps because some of the knuckleheads who leave their campers all over BLM and FS land are members on here and they got a little defensive....

I HATE seeing campers parked and left all season for people to "Show up on the weekend to use them"...I have seen this in both Colorado and Wyoming in hundreds of places over the years.

Bottom line is that the FS should lay heavy fines on these people who are leaving their campers and wall tents set up unattended for longer than the allowed period.

So, I will double down on my statement from a couple years back.

In my opinion you should get a maximum of 16 days to camp in a location.

After that your belongings should be considered abandoned/garbage/trash and subject to pirate law.

I bet you people would pull their stuff home with them if they showed back up and their camper was gone after it had been sitting there for a month.....

I like this idea, unfortunately, see the post above yours.

 

[Speeddmn]

Ive dragged my camper out to a spot a few days before Utah deer rifle season. Had time off work for the season and made aure to stay inside their given 14 day window. Drove out weeks ahead of time and scouted spots, like 2 months prior. Took pictures of all spots that had campers in them already. Oddly enough only a hand full were still in the same spot months later. Figured they were more local, as it was a remote area.

I definitely feared for my stuff, and my buddies stuff that was in there also.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I hate that crap. See it all the time on Crown land. What irks me most is the mess the homesteaders leave behind when they finally do depart. Mattresses, lawn chairs, visquene shacks, toilets, etc. I was a "leave no trace" guy before there was such a thing. Personally, I would never leave my camper in the bush. Too many "low brow" types running around ready to trash it. I am nervous just leaving my vehicle to fish for the day (the lake is too close to an Indian Reserve). It sure doesn't pay to drive a fancy tricked out truck. More than one fool has returned to find it minus all four wheels. Anyway, much as I'd like to, I won't mess with someone's illegal homestead. But I sure don't shed any tears when I see some cave man has had his way with it.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Make the fine $5000. That should pay some salaries. From what I saw there may be enough of it to even lower the cost of hunting licenses.....ok so maybe thats a stretch lol

Pay some interns $600/week to drive around following up on complaints snapping some pictures....Doesn't sound too difficult to me. Let the interns "eat what they kill" so to speak.

It would definitely send a message.

If a person is not one of the loosers leaving thier crap sitting all over then nobody should have a problem with this tactic.

 

[beginnerhunter]

This and placing stands on public land bugs the crap out of me. More of an eastern problem I guess. But imagine getting to a spot early, no trucks, walking in and setting up in the dark. 10 min later a guy shows up and says "You're hunting right in front of my stand over there." It invites conflict. People leave them up for months. It junks up the forest. I hate it. At least with people leaving their campsites up you don't waste your time with them.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

This and placing stands on public land bugs the crap out of me. More of an eastern problem I guess. But imagine getting to a spot early, no trucks, walking in and setting up in the dark. 10 min later a guy shows up and says "You're hunting right in front of my stand over there." It invites conflict. People leave them up for months. It junks up the forest. I hate it. At least with people leaving their campsites up you don't waste your time with them.

I’ve been hunting a couple of spots in MA, I found my 14th stand Saturday. None had people in them, 2 probably were set up during archery season, the rest had been up for years, several were permanent (wood shacks). Certainly you need to adjust to the culture of places you move to, but at the same time I don’t think I will give a crap about setting up right next to an existing stand.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I’ve been hunting a couple of spots in MA, I found my 14th stand Saturday. None had people in them, 2 probably were set up during archery season, the rest had been up for years, several were permanent (wood shacks). Certainly you need to adjust to the culture of places you move to, but at the same time I don’t think I will give a crap about setting up right next to an existing stand.

Sad. I would sell my guns before putting up with that "culture". My hat's off to you.

 

[TheJason]

Here's a little thing folks don't know. For an Forest Service LEO to site someone, that LEO or another Forest Protection Officer (FPO) needs to see people at the dispersed site each and everyday and have it documented. To be an FPO all you need to do is take a 3 day training course. These folks can only site folks for minor things, but they can act as a witness for the LEO. FPOs normally have another duty on the forest, but hold the qualification incase they see something that needs sited or educated. The key is 14 consecutive days. If one of those days is missed, the clock starts over. The reason for all of this is really about the folks who live on the forest, but the rules apply to real campers/hunters as well. If an LEO goes to court and can't prove the person was there for 14 consecutive days, then it gets thrown out. That is why an LEO rarely wastes their time on this kind of thing. They will make contact and can educate the campers. Many will actually leave once that contact is made. That said. When push comes to shove, the LEO knows he needs to prove the 14 consecutive days, which is almost impossible to do with the lack of staffing.

One LEO can be responsible for several districts and even more than one National Forest. Oh and they can often be called out to assist other Federal Law Enforcement, because their training allows them to respond and assist with everything under the sun. Many days go by with zero LEOs available to a district or Forest. Then it falls on local law enforcement or state police. They will only assist will actual crimes or serious incidents. It's sad and something that isn't given enough attention when it comes to funding public lands. We need more LEOs.

Very well articulated.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I live in national forest 2 months every fall in wyoming and a month in idaho. Its not right to reserve camps but i didnt get my spots i have had for YEARS this past season including my cut firewood and benches because it looked like the midwest puked up a parking lot.

Do you let people stay in your spots the rest of the year?

 

[Northwoods]

I dub it "Recreational Homesteading". If you have it happening in a place you can monitor weekly you might be able to bend the USFS district LEO's ear about it, but in most jurisdictions they have bigger issues like pot grows and meth labs. I think it would take an NGO like BHA to police it at the risk of incurring displeasure from the 6hour away locals.

This is a true statement. The USFS does not have that many LEO’s and enforcing the 14 day limit is not a priority for them.

 

[TheJason]

Make the fine $5000. That should pay some salaries. From what I saw there may be enough of it to even lower the cost of hunting licenses.....ok so maybe thats a stretch lol

Pay some interns $600/week to drive around following up on complaints snapping some pictures....Doesn't sound too difficult to me. Let the interns "eat what they kill" so to speak.

It would definitely send a message.

If a person is not one of the loosers leaving thier crap sitting all over then nobody should have a problem with this tactic.

Actually the fine already is 5k. However, fines don’t go back into the agency budget.

Having interns do what you said isn’t a bad idea, but you still need:

1) funding
2) prosecution by the courts

Given the underfunded nature of federal land agencies, I doubt Congress is going to all of a sudden care about a 14 day camping limit. I wish they would.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I wonder how many times in history that the $5,000 fine has been levied in full against a single person.

Never is my guess.

 

[TheJason]

I wonder how many times in history that the $5,000 fine has been levied in full against a single person.

Never is my guess.

Don’t know. Maximum fine is really irrelevant if the law isn’t really enforced in the first place.

Imposition of a Max fine is up to the judge, not the agency.

 

[406dn]

While I don't like it,, it's a pipe dream to think it is going to change.

With all of the problems facing our country,,, dispersed camping violations is not even close to being on the radar screen.

 

[TheJason]

dispersed camping violations is not even close to being on the radar screen.

It wouldn't surprise me if it does become a bigger issue in the future though. Our public lands have really seen an uptick in use, both recreationally and by COVID refugees.