RMEF Rant

[TheTone]

A good friend of mine I believe preceeded Kim. From what I was told he was essentially let go in a purely money move, thats been several years ago now. We have very little RMEF presence on the eastern side of the state, but MDF and DU banquets do really well over here. I guess my biggest gripe I see with RMEF is how little they really seem to be doing in Idaho and other western states of late. I know of a couple grant projects that would have really benifitted elk that they turned down near me this year. They sure seem to be doing a great job though of putting RM elk in eastern states

 

[Sytes]

If I understand correctly, the RMEF backed away from the support of enabling access of the lazy crowd's desire to atv their way to the pristine lakes / land...

My concern over this swelling support of evacuating RMEF... Seems they swayed the wrong way initially, and I agree that this move was POOR... Though it does appear they listened to the concerns shared on this subject and reversed their position. If we, those strongly supporting to keep our elk habitat safe from the road traveling people, move away from RMEF - it may create an evil that will grow further as less members voicing concern... Thus creating a void and potential enemy for the future of our pristine wilderness.
I agree FULLY the powers that be chose a wrong path, initially. Though more now then ever I would think we need to be a presence within the RMEF to break this habit that seems to be forming.
I agree it is really sad, considering the main RMEF site has 20,000 more links to contributing then actually "educating" our public. Sure, it is necessary to keep funding though the primary emphasis should be on securing our elk. I value the content shared here on RMEF and appreciate the perspective shared by BuzzH on the $$$ direction.

Though, before I turn in my membership and my favorite license plate (Gotta admite it, their plate rocks!) Is this really the downhill spiral that is being conveyed? Or do we need to get a stronger presense to make sure we do not have a larger issue later down the road?

 

[6speed]

Personally I think the foundation started for the purpose of protecting and enhancing elk and their habitat has become a company run to make make money that has to put some of it's earnings into elk and their habitat in order to maintain a revenue stream. Elk and their habitat should be the number one goal, I'm not sure they feel that way anymore. I'm sure they won't miss my yearly dues and volunteered time but I will feel better donating it to an organization who has not lost sight of what really matters to it's members.

 

[old man]

I really don't understand you people. there is no organization that pleases all its members all the time. you don,t leave an organization just because you don't like something they have said or done.you originally joined the RMEF because you are an elk hunter or enjoy seeing elk.the RMEF has always worked to enhance the elk herds and still does.therefor if you still hunt elk and still want to see more, than i beg of you to stay true to the elk. i also believe no matter what you think of the NRA if you own a gun you should also belong to them, because they do more to protect your gun rights than any other orgaization.

 

[BuzzH]

old man,

The elk foundation has lost its way, hopefully it can get back on track. Its not as simple as they just said something that a few members dont like. theres more flip-fopping going on with the RMEF than a dirt covered trout at a kids fish pond.

They endorsed HR1581, which would be damaging to elk and elk habitat. If you read their mission statement its pretty clear:

The mission of the Elk Foundation is to ensure the future of elk, other wildlife and their habitat.


Its also more than clear that HR1581 is being pushed and endorsed by extractive users as it has the potential to open up what little is left of roadless lands to development, atv use, etc. I'm well past the point of endorsing or supporting ANY group that is in favor of trashing whats left of our roadless country.

A former boss and friend of mine penned this article, and pretty much sums up the bill that the elk foundation supported, then didnt support, and who knows what their official stance is now.


Cosponsored by our own Denny Rehberg, House bill HR 1581 Wilderness and Roadless Area Release Act of 2011 would remove all protections to remaining roadless areas and wilderness study areas. These areas are currently protected by the Roadless Area Conservation Rule.

Releasing Roadless areas to development via this bill opens them to oil and gas exploration and more roads and more road hunters. These roadless areas are the heart of Montana’s remaining public land elk country. Favorite western Montana elk areas like Burdette Cr, Marshall Peak, Petty Mtn, Mt Bushnell, Blue Joint and Tolan Cr. Roadless lands are usually surrounded by heavily roaded or private lands. The 6.8% of Montana that is still roadless is the primary reason Montanans have the longest elk hunting seasons anywhere. Roadless areas are the primary reason big bulls and big mule deer bucks are still found on public land.

Removing roadless area protections will quicken the day when most elk run to private ranches to escape hunters because there are no more secure habitats on public land. Rehberg’s bill is great for the rich guys who pay to hunt elk on private lands. Great for those corporations with deep pockets who find public land conservation in the way of the last dollar. Great for commercial elk hunting interests on private land. But what about you as an average resident elk hunter? Where will you go hunting? Apparently where, or if, you go elk hunting doesn’t matter to the sponsors and supporters of this bill.

Greg Munther

To go further, the elk foundation layed dormant on the wolf issue until just recently as well, which also cost them membership. They saw a chance to gain back the support they lost once the wolf issue had already been fought...and won, without their help.

Going back and even further, the RMEF largely stayed out of Montanas Elk Management Plan, which is about the time I let my membership lapse. That was a defining moment for me in the RMEF's lack of wanting to take a stand for elk and elk hunters. I've not ever really gotten over it.

Combine all those issues with more that I havent listed, its a lot, a whole lot more than just not agreeing with them on this latest BS.

You cant trash your mission statement for money and for pay-offs to high dollar donors at the expense of elk and elk habitat without losing membership.

I can over-look some things, but in this case, its just too much for too long. Cant do it anymore.

 

[RockyDog]

Buzz for president!

 

[shoots-straight]

Buzz really summed it up. I have one thing to add. Back in 1991 Ravalli County was one of the fastest growing counties in the state of Montana. A large Ranch here went up for sale (Bitterroot Stock Farm), just east of Hamilton. It was 22,000 acres of the best Elk habitat in the Bitterroot Valley. I notified the RMEF of the potential there. I was told that they felt the Root was a lost cause and they wanted to put their money in areas of the state that would prove better elk habitat in the long run. The Ranch was up for sale at $7.2 million. A local entrepreneur scrapped together enough investors to buy the property. They sold the timber off the place for $10.2 million. Then subdivided, and split off the some of the lower elevation lands for something like $4 million. Then in came the savor,(RMEF) they game him another $4.5 million to keep from subdividing it anymore. For another $2.7 million they could have owned it, as was. Great elk habitat would have been kept intact without the roads, logging, and the new golf course and Richy rich subdivision at the ranches base, which is spread out on what was winter range. That was when I stopped my membership. Politics got in the way back then, and now it's out of control. They need new leadership.

 

[BuzzH]

In fairness, and something I should have mentioned in my last post, I can also see why people would still want to support the RMEF.

Its just that a lot of us only have so much time, effort, and money they can spend with regard to wildlife organizations/conservation. I've decided to help out the groups that best fit what I feel is important to the sport, to the habitat, and also the wildlife. Mainly average DIY, public land hunters with a concern for wildlife and wildlife habitat.

Right now, the RMEF isnt a good fit for me...not saying I couldnt and wont change my mind if they get back on track.

 

[Big Fin]

Interesting to read the discussions about RMEF. Like most of you, I have been an RMEF member since Moby Dick was a minnow. Also had my times when I disagreed with what they did, or didn't, do. Made sure to let them know my opinion.

I have stayed out of these RMEF discussions, as they are involved in our site and our show, and feared anything I would say would come across as partisan. And, being on the road for as long as I was, I barely had time to post the daily events of the hunt, let alone chime in on these topics.

I am an avid supporter of wild places, unlittered by roads, and where hunting elk is a function of one's commitment to the hunt, not a quest for the easiest tag to fill. Have been supporting such causes for years and will continue to advocate for the same.

I think back to when I first moved to Montana in 1991 (I know, that long ago date explains all my gray hair). One discussion that was going on at that time was whether we would be willing to accept seasonal or permanent travel restrictions. Doing so meant we would most likely be able to keep the most liberal hunting seasons in the lower 48. Refusal to accept such restrictions meant we would soon be following the pattern of other states, by shortening seasons to protect an increasingly vulnerable elk population.

I knew where I stood on that, and fortunately, most other Montana hunters felt the same way. It was a surge of pressure to keep opportunity high, even if it meant reduced motorized access. All you younger MT hunters probably had not passed hunter ed at that time, but the decision that was made in the early 1990's is why we enjoy the great seasons we have now. It was a cross roads of how we would manage in Montana. I think we took the right path, though others may disagree.

From that, I was impressed with RMEF. They had done a study in Oregon that gave clear evidence of the incongruency between elk and roads. Not sure if they made official position during those discussions, but some of their board members and some of their founders attended meetings I went to and they made a clear case that we need to protect habitat if we are to preserve hunting opportunity. They easily connected the dots that habitat was compromised with unrestricted motorized travel, and therefore, so would opportunity be compromised. Whether they were speaking on behalf of themselves, or on behalf of the organization, I cannot recall. One thing I do recall was that RMEF was all about elk and elk hunting.

I was involved in many of the land exchanges here in Southwest Montana. Gallatin I and Gallatin II, Taylor's Fork, Royal Teton, and a few others. No group was more committed and more able to get those deals done than RMEF. Plain and simple, without RMEF, those lands would not be protected. Lands where a pot full of elk were killed last year by public hunters hunting lands they would otherwise not have been able to hunt.

It is those kind of projects that make me able to continue supporting RMEF when they made decisions I might not have agreed with. I am glad I stayed a member. They usually came back to what I thought was the better position, even if it took some time. Sometimes not, and I accepted that as function of a large organization probably required to listen to members from other states, not just my perspective of some hunter living in Southwest Montana.

Those who have dropped RMEF have your reasons for feeling the way you do. Nothing wrong with that. A big organization is going to have some instances where people feel things went bad.

I will judge them based on what they do in the long run, not the decision of the day. When I go to Arizona to hunt antelope and see how much work RMEF has done in that area that helps not just elk, but antelope, and many other species, it makes it easier to accept the times when I might have disagreed.

When I go to New Mexico and hunt elk in an area they helped fund the burn and PJ management, I remember that. When I hunt elk in Colorado and know the work RMEF has done over many years to help those herds maintain their range, in spite of heavy development pressure, I remember that, also.

I know I am not going to change any minds with my comments here. All of you are very well educated on these issues and some of the smartest folks on the web when it comes to resource discussions.

I can assure you that many people read these Hunt Talk threads, especially those that are discussing important conservation topics. I know, as I get calls and emails as a result of what is posted here.

The discussions that go on here are healthy and good for the sake of wildlife and wild places. I hope all of you continue to air your thoughts, do so in a way that allows others to learn from the discussion, and continue to provide a diversity of comments and ideas that help us come to better decisions.

I am biased in my opinions of the net positive RMEF provides to the landscape for both elk and for hunters. Such biases are formed based on being a member for over 20 years and seeing the work they have done in the areas I hunt, not just in my back yard. Their results on the ground created enough bias that I donated a :30 second commercial for all of Season One to RMEF and one to B&C. In Season Two, I did not have any inventory to donate, but still donated a billboard in every show to RMEF and WSF. I will continue to support RMEF and their mission of ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, and their habitat, as I can think of no other group that is doing more for my kind of hunting, in the kind of places I like to hunt. I respect those who feel otherwise and choose differently.

I will continue to be involved in conservation projects, especially those that help preserve wild places for wild elk, and the abundant hunting opportunity that can be provided from such. By being an RMEF member, I hope to provide an opinion and advocacy for the cause of wild places.

For those of you not renewing with RMEF, I hope you find another organization to put your support to that does the same good work for wildlife and wild places that RMEF has done over the last 25+ years. And, hopefully RMEF will provide reason for you to become a member once again.

Happy Hunting. Hope you all get an elk this fall.

 

[6speed]

Thanks for the post Fin. I was also able to overlook most of the issues I had with the organization. For me it took a more personal act before I decided to drop my support. Call me self centered but when I give away my time and money it has to be for something I can feel good about and that is no longer the case. I'll miss helping with the banquets, meeting new friends and reading your articles in Bugle but I should be getting my first issue of Fair Chase Magazine soon so I figure I made a good choice with what to do with my dues.

 

[old man]

Buzz H, now i know why you are so upset, you belong to the Montana group that the RMEF frowns on. It seems the two groups are like Dem's and rep.I only know what i read and see. somewhere on this site the RMEF explained what the bill was really about, and was nowhere near what you claim it is. since this is Randy's site and he now belongs To the RMEF I don't see him complaining.why don't we ask him about the bill that you are all so upset about.by the way I am assuming you are a trophy hunter,is this true.if so ,do you DIOYO? if so do you hike in to a base camp or use horses? Do you belong to a group or oyoo>

 

[TheTone]

I think I might have a new favorite poster...

 

[BuzzH]

old man,

Not sure what you mean by "the Montana group that the RMEF frowns on"...But, so you know, the RMEF was founded in Montana.

Yes, the RMEF's support of HR1581 was "that bad"...and thats why they dropped their endorsement of it.

As to the rest, no, I'm not a trophy hunter, I dont own horses, and in 31 years of hunting I've been on ONE guided hunt and it wasnt for elk. I do belong to several other organizations.

I hope you enjoyed your fishing trip...but I dont think you even got a bite.

 

[old man]

Buzz, I have nothing against Montana, in fact when my wife and i were out there in the mid 80S we agreed when the time came we were moving to bozeman.however we never got there soon enough.it has changed to much for us now.so we were going to move to buffalo wyo.next year but another wrench fell into the mix.my wife was just diagnosed with lung cancer,(don't know exactly how bad yet) so don't know if we will make it next year or not

.As soon as i find out what group the RMEF was talking about I will let you know.

getting no bite is nothing new for me,not getting game is also nothing new for me. but i will keep doing them because i love it .so not a trophy hunter! then you must be a meat hunter like me. I always wanted to be a mountain man but the good lord wouldn't let me cause he knew i would starve to death real quick.

A couple of reasons that i chose buffalo Wyo., it is more wild than Mont., from what i have read it has less anti hunters, but most of all it is cheaper to live .now living on SS and can't afford this state no longer. also close to Montana and can visit often. also no wolves YET.

 

[BuzzH]

Old man,

I wouldnt say I'm strictly a meat hunter either...I pretty much hunt for my own reasons, like everyone else.

 

[6speed]

And now the rest of the story.

I figured I started this so I may as well update it. The stance the RMEF took against our regional leadership still pisses me off, they are still pushing foreign junk at their banquets and you still get a foreign knife with a junk handle when you sign up. The magazine isn't what it used to be and except for Fins articles and a couple others now and then it reads more like a melancholy remember when story book than an exciting make you want to get out there hunting publication it's borderline depressing as of late.

That said after the initial sting wore off our chapter chair realized he had made to many promises to local people he had to see on a regular basis to just walk away and leave. He stayed and after a few changes, so have I. I won't have to deal with the junk they send or feel as guilty peeling the made in China stickers off my floor after the banquet (even the stickers aren't very good). I will donate some time and effort to the committee and I'm sure when my dues come up this spring I'll pay them although I may include a little note about how I think things are going, I'm sure no one would read it but I would feel better. I'm sure to some this looks like a flip flop and I guess it is like that trout at the kid pond in a way but I figure as much as those folks that I will never meet that I send $35 to once a year who work in big office in Montana aggravate and disappoint me, the guys I will meet for the chapter Christmas party next week are the real reason I'm staying. For those of you who still don't want anything to do with the RMEF hopefully they will start to take notice and make the changes we all want them to. To the rest of you, I have some two gun raffle tickets for sale. We'll draw a winner at the Christmas party while drinking beers with the new Regional Director he has some big shoes to fill, hopefully hes up to the task.

 

[DreaminofMT6X6s]

I think with time you'll feel better about your decision to stick around.

 

[Big Fin]

I admire you, 6speed. And I appreciate your commitment to conservation being such a high priority.

How much are the raffle tickets? How do I buy one or two?

 

[Brittany Chukarman]

I'm glad to see these issues discussed here. I was with RMEF from the start as a donor until they spent 6mil on the visitor center. In my eyes that's a pretty extravagant expense for something that could have been done for less and still be sufficient for the cause. I imagine some of that was donated just for that, but still,that's a lot of money that could have went to conservation.
I have been thinking about joining them or some other conservation outfit again, feel kind of guilty for not doing my part lately. No organization is going to please everybody all the time but it's good to be educated on the path they are taking.

 

[thecrittergitter]

I too have had some disagreement with RMEF in the past with decisions that have made made, or not made for that matter. However, tell me a single organization that does EVERYTHING right for everybody. You won't be able to. After some more recent things that the RMEF has done that i have seen first hand, I will definately support them. They don't get it right all the time, but they have done far more good for elk in this country than any other organization ever has or probably ever will.

In fact, the very ground we hunted today, and saw dozens of elk, two great bull moose, and nearly harvested a wolf, would not have happened if it weren't for the RMEF and the guys that helped save that land from development.

Like I said, I've been frustrated with them on certain issues as well, but they have done far more good than not.