RM wild elk in TX.

[Tom]

Someone made an error in a post recently, saying there are not elk in TX. I know people in the NW can be real opinionated and don't mind making outlandishly ignorant statements about TX and other topics, but some people there may wish to become a little educated on the subject too. Others may wish to attempt to educate those ignorant of the wild elk in TX. So, here's an attempt for those to communicate some info. about elk here.

Exhibit 1: We even have B&C elk here.

Exhibit 2: Its documented where they are on maps, see the 3 areas of TX with elk?

See the area in New Mexico bordering Texas also?
Here's the book with the map,

Its writen by a guy from Wyoming, not to far from the center of people with elk intelligence in the US.

Exhibit 4: My name is Tom and I support this message. "I have seen wild free ranging elk in Texas in the Guadelupe mountains where they cross between New Mexico and Texas." See the map above.

Exhibit 5: People still sell hunts for free wild ranging Rocky mountain elk in Texas.
See, e.g. www.bossranch.com

If anyone makes more ingnorant statements about no wild elk in Texas, please feel free to attempt to educate them with this post.

Either that or, just kidding here, call them a lieing ignorant northwestern son of a bitch.

 

[BbarC]

There is a free roaming herd in the panhandle north west of Amarillo that has been there many years. Occasionally a few would wander down the canyon and would end up around Lubbock. I saw several while I lived there and in fact I caught one bull as per instruction of the local warden. There are many free roam elk in the big bend area and around the Guadalupe pass area. Maybe came from new mexico??

 

[Washington Hunter]

Tom, I am guessing I am the "ignorant northwestern son of a bitch." Well...I may have said there are no elk in Texas, but what I really should have said is there are very few elk in Texas. I knew you have some elk there. But seriously, does it really matter? Are any of these elk on public land, and if so, can they be hunted? If these elk you have are not a resource that is available to the general public then isn't that almost as if there are no elk? Does anybody really care about the wild elk in Texas? How much money do you think the RMEF spends on elk habitat there?

 

[Tom]

Of course it maters. You like RMEF, WH, they are all excited about moving elk back east, that matters too. You know they multiply, those elk?

The Guadelupe mountain elk I saw were on public land, but they would be hunted on the New Mexico side, not where I saw them in the national park in TX, but they can be hunted.

The general public can hunt private land here, its a big business, its not like no elk, even if it was just private land.

Yes, people care about wild elk in TX.

I don't care how much RMEF spends on elk habitat in Texas, I hope they stay out of here pretty much. There's more wildlife in the US on private land than there is public land and I think private landowners are doing an outstanding job with wildlife habitat in a lot of places. I know a lot of them are here, we have many landowners getting wildlife tax exemptions for their land just for that purpose. They don't even have to have cattle, sheep, or goats then, if they don't want to. I here private ownership is a pretty good thing to make capitalism work well too.

It must be happening other places to, since I've read there are more wildlife on private land than there are on public land in the US.

There is a lot more hunting, if you consider private land, in addition to public land. You should try a private land hunt sometime. Maybe a bird hunt or something, at least try to imagine the benefit that some get from that.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

Tom ,
Curiosity is killing me too , so can you and your fellow co-texas hunt all them elk or not?
If so , is there a minimum height of shooting tower required? now that's huntin!

 

[pawclaws]

Tom, any of those camels left running wild in Texas??

 

[Tom]

Fairchaseben, click on the link above www.bossranch.com. You can hunt there yourself. I don't think they have towers for elk out there and I know its not required. You want to discuss hunting tower blinds and how they are used, is that it?

If you go on a hunt there, they pay a bonus to shoot some things:
Coyotes $50 BONUS PAID

Jack-Rabbits $1 BONUS PAID

Porcupines $25 BONUS PAID

Skunks $25 BONUS PAID


Pawclaws, the army had camels here for a while for soldiers to use, not to be wild, that I know of. Were you stationed here then as Quartermaster or something pawclaws? I don't know what they did with them, when they decided not to use them anymore. Did you let them loose, hunt em down, and cook em for the garrison? It might of been like eating your horse or something, I know Indians used to eat horses. I don't know much about camels?

 

[BbarC]

Rmef sure does raise LOTSA money here not to spend any,eh?? Yep you can hunt elk here. The farmers in the panhandle be glad for you to and best of all, no sason, no tags. And no towers or bait rquired . Paw , only camels left are on the shelf in 7-11.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Ok I got it, elk hunting in Texas is too cheap and too easy, that is why so many Texans go to Colorado every year to hunt elk. It must be that they are craving the challenge of a real hunt.

 

[pawclaws]

Thanks Tom! Yes I know about the temporary use of camels by the army there. That's why I was asking. As far as I can find out they were simply released when the project went tits up and the plans to put a Confederate prison camp in at San Pedro Springs fell through. The "historical version" is that the locals thought there would be too many bodies in the camp to be supported by the springs; but, my guess is they were already thinking pro-Confederacy! I was just curious whether or not there might be some wild survivors.

 

[Tom]

They might be still active, I found this.

http://www.texascamelcorps.com/default.asp

There's a Texas Camel Corps. They have some events scheduled this month.

 

[pawclaws]

Thanks Tom! That was a fascinating read. Believe it or not, it is thought that descendants of the original 100 csamels still roam free in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. The last captive offspring died in 1934. The group does reenactments in and around Texas that just might be worth a go look see!

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hey Tom,

They got any pictures of them Camel Toes from down there???

 

[Tom]

It does look interesting pawclaws. The 1/2 day and overnight camel treks are neat, but not real cheap. $200 at this place.

Monahans Sandhills State Park is conveniently located on Interstate 20, less than a 45-minute drive from Midland International Airport which is served by most major airlines.

Total cost per person- $375 for overnight treks, $200 for half-day treks. Kids 12 and under half price. All meals, guides and State Park fees are included.

I wonder why this guy paid that and is walking?

Elkgunner wants to hunt them, we have to find a camel track for him. I'll bet most of the ground is to hard to make a track or its just dips in the sand areas at the right spacings?

I'm thinking its a mystery thing, some still think wild ones roam. There should be pictures or something if that is true by now. 1934 to now is 70 years later! Pretty stealthy, those camels!

[ 06-09-2004, 11:10: Message edited by: Tom ]

 

[pawclaws]

Yep I'm thinking they might just be camera shy! Probably ended up on some Comanche's spit! Anyway here is what got me interested. It is the profile I wrote for my personna, Cpl Kass Irons. While Corporal Irons is a fictional character the surrounding events collectively represent history.

Corporal Kass Irons Confederate States of America (CSA) Persona

In 1821, Stephen F. Austin, known as the "Father of Texas," made a contract to bring 300 families to the Spanish province, which now is Texas. By 1823, probably more than 600 to 700 people were in Texas, hardy colonists from the various portions of the United States at that time, who settled not far from the Gulf of Mexico. There was no regular army to protect us, so Austin called all the citizens together and organized a group to provide the needed protection. Austin first referred to this group as the Rangers in 1823, for their duties compelled them to range over the entire country, thus giving rise to the service known as the Texas Rangers. Me and my Ma were part of these families; we came from Louisiana looking for land to settle after Pa had passed away three years earlier and a new start. Ma took on borders until getting a Mexican cook, started a small hotel, and was doing real well in just a short time. Ma really did not need me any more and could be along fine on her own so I struck out. Sixteen and plumb full of piss and vinegar I went looking for my fortune.

It was in 1823 when I joined the Rangers, Seventeen years old; but with already a cattle drive under my belt lasting several months the year before. That time spent with Mr. Culpepper trail herding from Texas to Colorado with more than 1,000 head of Mexican beef was my change from boy to man and I was ready for the Rangers. Don't get me wrong now, that drive was nothing like what the drives are today. I recall I got five dollars a month and found. I hear that the drovers are getting twice that now and the cooks get sixty! That drive even though it wasn't the most important thing to happen in the world had brought death at my hand, my first experience with a woman, my first drink, and the first look of respect from another man's eye. I had signed on with The Culpepper Cattle Company as Cook's helper, what everyone called "Mary" and from all I learned I suspect I might have learned to cook too if Cook had known anything. I never said a word though. I had learned a whole lot more about fixin' grub from Ma than Cook ever showed he knew. That time spent with Mr. Culpepper was my ticket into the Rangers. Once they found out I could cook a little bit; seemed like, that's all I ever did. I stayed with them. Mostly on the range rounding up whatever criminals need be, stray renegades, or even an occasional Mexican soldier. Cooked too!

In 1844, the Texas rangers leader, Jack Hays, set up headquarters in San Antonio. He wanted the men to learn how to fight better on horseback and in an area near the San Pedro springs we got to test our abilities. We had a riding and shooting contest against the Comanche Indians and local Mexican caballeros. Needless to say, I did all right at that. Still cooked! Cap'n Jack thought maybe there just wasn't anything I couldn't do! I always did right by the men and they did by me too. In 45, the Army put a camp in there so we had neighbors to visit when there was time to do so. I conversed with the Quartermaster there and learned a few more things about cooking and such from him. One fella there I met, Charles Goodnight, and I got to be good friends. He had worked on some of the earliest cattle drives too, and even joined the Rangers for a while. He was drawing up pictures of what he was calling a "chuck wagon"; a real interesting contraption too!

It was like a covered wagon with a big trunk in the back with a lid on the front that drops down. He puts legs under the lid and makes a table. Well, inside that trunk, there are shelves and bins and in there, he says he plans on storing his flour, bacon, sugar, coffee, beans, and other stuff. He is trying to get the Army to build one to use on patrols for a field kitchen. He says it will work better on cattle drives than mules or pack horses so the cook can haul all his stuff and maybe the drovers' burdens too. "Charles"; says I, " you know now the Army ain't going to do anything that makes good sense!" He agreed and laughed at that. Around 48, just about the time Texas broke away from Mexico, I lost track of him. A few years later, I heard he was a full Colonel; imagine that! I stayed on there in the Springs through the start of the war doing more Rangering and cooking learning a little more this and that and getting older as time moved on. In 54, Jefferson Davis brought in those danged camels. Funniest looking critters I ever saw! Comanche were down right scared of them; thought they were some kind of evil spirit or something. Davis got this crazed idea that he could replace the army mule with these things for moving men and bundles over the desert. I guess that's normal, for the Army though. Only the Army could ignore Charles' chuck wagon idea but import these disasters over the sea! They didn't need as much water as the mules did and could pack bigger loads too; but there were some real problems with them. Guess they come from some big desert somewhere. Anyway, I bet he would like to get his hands on the carpetbagger that talked him into that idea! Those things were nasty; actually would spit on you or stand on your foot just to be mean. Danged things did cook up pretty tasty though! That hump on their back was a whole lot like ox tails without the bones and you could roast it up and put most any kind of vegetables with it. The rest of them was something like beef only a little tougher. The army turned them loose and there were still some of them running wild when the war broke out. Just shortly afterward, the Union put up a Confederate prison camp there at the springs and all hell broke loose. The ranchers and proud citizens thought that was bringing just too many men and animals for that little area to support so that idea didn't work at all. Didn't take the Union long to shut it down and move out entirely. Texas was kind of pro Confederate anyway; and I think the blue bellies could take the hint. Times were just getting real good for Texas. The cattle business was just starting to do well. Several trails had opened up into New Mexico, Colorado, and of course California. My Ranger outfit was made an army regiment (Tyler's Texas Rangers) which volunteered to support the Confederacy. So it looks like Texas gave up independence to join the Union; but, is now joining the revolution with the Confederacy! Some things it just don't pay to try and figure out! Well there, I was and here I am. 1860, already 55 years old, my last chance to make my mark; so I joined in for a little excitement and look at this; still cookin'!

Corporal Kass Irons, CSA
Tyler's Texas Rangers (Attached to Mosby's Raiders)
Quartermaster and Garrison Cook

 

[Tom]

"The army turned them loose and there were still some of them running wild when the war broke out."

It says that too.

There's several Texas Ranger museums around.
http://www.texasranger.org/

I'm thinking a few of them helped beat the Germans invading from the south, but mostly King Ranch people did that, in WWI. That story is in a book about the history of the King Ranch. The Texas Rangers have a lot of history to them.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Paws, if I had wanted to know about camels in Texas, I would have asked.

 

[pawclaws]

Thanks Tom. I'll butt out then WH.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Paws, you're no fun. I was ready for threats and insults and all you can say is you'll butt out. Is something wrong?

 

[WH's OutdoorsChick]

Stop starting Trouble WH LMFAO