Rinella article.. CUT AND PASTED

[elkduds]

That leads us to the point that in all digital media, the algorithm uses the viewers behavior/choices to drive more of what the viewer sees. So, the viewer, via the algorithm is building the funnel that determines their viewing options.

Randy, thanks for discussing this w details and illustrations from the inner workings of social media. Enlightening, it has its own logic. Scary in that it capitalizes on the tyranny of the majority and rewards the loudest chest thumpers. Like rating auto accidents based on which drew the most gapers.

It reminds me to appreciate your determination to promote public lands, real hunters, real stories, real voices in the midst of this tsunami of surrealization. We can only choose among existing options. I hope for you the juice is worth the squeeze. because your voice is the unique and essential option to many of us on HT.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Are platforms like Instagram just not conducive to salad, because candy is a better "strategy" per the "game's rules?"

I think it is less about a platform/AI not letting our best intentions win out, but rather that we are not honest or clear about our own "best of intentions". I am not surprised that "grip and grin" leads the way. For most of us, a successful hunt is at least one important part of the activity, so seeing someone else succeed resonates and gets the like. Now for some the environmental advocacy part is also important, and for some public land advocacy is an important part, and for others, time with family is an important part. And images of those concepts would also get likes, but from a subset. Whatever is the most universal part of an activity will be the one with the most likes - even if all agree it is not necessarily the most important. All the other more fragmented parts lose out in a numbers game.

If salad truly was the most universally revered it would "score the highest". The "math" of the AI is just revealing the truth we don't see (or want to see). We get this in food all the time. When you take shoppers and ask them would they pay 10% more for a product that was "sustainable" or "healthy" etc, OR ask would you change brands if the brand was more "sustainable", etc., the vast majority say yes (>80%), but then when you actually track those shoppers in the store and track their actual buying choices shelf by shelf, item by item many many (greater than half) revert back to price or past preference.

What we say we want does not always match what we actually want or are willing to change to get. It is no surprise that it shows up in hunting too. And that is not the AI's fault. The problem is where AI is used to lock in that observed preference. Where it then narrows your next round of choices so that you don't even realize those options to do "better or "different" are still there. Once the first few choices (conscious or unconscious) are made choices disappear - resulting in the proverbial echo chamber. Humans need repeat exposure to change/evolve preferences and thoughts, modern AI minimizes those exposures after an initial negative response - a recipe for polarization, confirmation bias run amok, reduced empathy/understanding, and stagnation.

 

[wa_archer]

More than all of this I wish all those people that follow would take more time to truly engage. Instead of engaging just in social media. Like Randy pointed out his episodes of conservation get less views. I’m for sure glad he keeps pushing those ideas.

Im glad we can have these discussions but realize when I’m on this format or even rokslide for the most part I am interacting with only one group of hunters. There is a whole other demographic that think conservation, engaging in the political, public science arena of conservation and season setting is not needed and they won’t. When they do it’s to argue and point the finger at a group who have engaged for dropping the ball. If everyone that engages with social media in the hunting realm would take the same amount of time to call, email, engage in comments on hunting and public land issues we are hard to beat.

I have had similar thoughts when speaking of R3 and thinking of how many additional people I see in the woods. I would rather there be less and feel there probably are less just those who are hunt multiple states and all season. But here I am pointing the finger and describing myself. I have reduced my social media in half and plan to cut it even further especially when it comes to hunting. I try and show more of the trip, landscape and moments rather than the animals.

 

[7Bartman]

I certainly see Matt's point and I take it into consideration, but for me, ego isn't the primary driving feature of my social media. I frankly really like seeing others hunts and I also equally enjoy sharing. This space to me is one giant campfire where we get to share hunting stories. Sure there is a mix of bragging, but I enjoy sharing the self-deprecating aspects as well (I almost shot a beef cow with my bow this year). I also feel like I'm not a great writer and I can be much more creative with video telling a story than I can be with writing. I also think the old adage rings true that if a picture tells a thousand words, then a video...
I certainly have spent more time being irritated with video equipment and cussing over editing than I have gotten "likes" and I certainly haven't made any money off of it. I do want my videos to get much exposure, but that is only the product of the time it takes me to make them. Again, I certainly enjoy watching the content others produce, so I feel obligated to produce as well, other than consuming.
It's a lot like elk camp, I like hunting by myself many times, but my favorite part is returning to camp and hearing/sharing stories from the day.
Long story short, are we all not somewhat guilty participating on forums? Moreover, if you participate and don't share, doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I try and show more of the trip, landscape and moments rather than the animals.

Excellent suggestion.

Edit: I just wrote a two word response. Can you believe it? Then I blew it. Crap.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

which i think is why the pessimist in me says we're screwed. we have to rely on the people, the viewers, the masses to change it for the better. fat chance it would seem if that's our hope - unless social media forces the change or altogether disappears the problem in this specific context will persist and likely worsen.

I generally agree, and think we’d be roughly where we are regardless of who or what the specific delivery systems were for the last 15 years or so.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

...I try and show more of the trip, landscape and moments rather than the animals.

I like that tack and that's a good post, but there are problems with the above as well. The landscapes I hunt in are way better than the animals I kill, but I get nervous posting them on my non-public instagram, let alone a forum. Which flat out stinks. It's too easy for people to pin down where you were and show up, even if it's not a "good" spot.

 

[Irrelevant]

I like that tack and that's a good post, but there are problems with the above as well. The landscapes I hunt in are way better than the animals I kill, but I get nervous posting them on my non-public instagram, let alone a forum. Which flat out stinks. It's too easy for people to pin down where you were and show up, even if it's not a "good" spot.

See I don't have that problem, hell I'll point people right at my spots, not like there are any deer there anyway.

Must be a WY problem...

 

[MTLabrador]

I like that tack and that's a good post, but there are problems with the above as well. The landscapes I hunt in are way better than the animals I kill, but I get nervous posting them on my non-public instagram, let alone a forum. Which flat out stinks. It's too easy for people to pin down where you were and show up, even if it's not a "good" spot.

This. I probably have 100 landscape shots over the years of the place where I killed this year’s bull. It’s incredible country, but those photos will never be posted anywhere.

 

[VikingsGuy]

This. I probably have 100 landscape shots over the years of the place where I killed this year’s bull. It’s incredible country, but those photos will never be posted anywhere.

I am not asking for your honey hole, but it would really help a guy out if you PM'd me those pictures

 

[MTLabrador]

I am not asking for your honey hole, but it would really help a guy out if you PM'd me those

Heed the warnings of those who came before you…

I saw a truck at a trailhead this year decked out with prostaff stickers and giant decals from some YouTube show I’ve never heard of. I was annoyed until I stalked his Instagram and found out that he hunted something like 50 days without getting a shot at a cow or raghorn and almost froze to death up my trail.

Maybe that will keep him away for a while.

It’s a pretty tough place to try and kill an elk.

 

[Pagosa]

Over the past decade, hunters have increasingly publicized pictures and videos of their kills to large audiences on social media. This monumental change in hunting norms occurred gradually and with little thought for its consequences. These consequences are overwhelmingly negative. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for sharing photos of harvested game with friends and family. I strongly support individuals and organizations that use social media to cover issues of importance to the hunting community. But it is time to unfollow hunters who post pictures of dead animals to hundreds, thousands, or even millions of, mostly, strangers.

Social media has corrupted our motivations for hunting and is risking the future of the very activity we love so much. Traditionally, we hunters took to the woods for hides, horns, meat, personal enjoyment, and a sense of self-reliance. Now, for the first time in human history, many seek a digital harvest. Rather than butchering meat for the freezer or tanning a hide, these kinds of hunters mostly want photos on their iPhones to beam out across the internet. More than cooking and eating what they shoot, they’re interested in exchanging it for likes and followers — and even corporate sponsorships in gear and dollars.

Primitive Hunter Gatherer on his phone matt rinella essayPrimitive Hunter Gatherer on his phone matt rinella essayLike. Like. Like. Like. Like. Like. Like. Like. Adobe
With my last name, this may strike some as a curious position. I’m the brother of Steve Rinella, the founder of MeatEater and maybe the most influential hunter in America today. While I dearly love Steve and am close with some of his coworkers, I’ve come to realize their approach — and the approach of many others — of blending hunting and media, and their efforts to publicize and commodify hunting and wildlife via every available digital platform, undermine hunters everywhere. It’s easy to forget these days that people can remain friends despite vehemently disagreeing, but we’ve managed to do just that.

My argument starts with the fact that, in much of the US, public-land hunting is so overcrowded it’s no longer worth it. The mainstream and hunting mediahave run articles bemoaning declines in hunter participation for years, but this is utter nonsense. The number of hunters is extremely difficult to determine, and even if hunter numbers have dipped slightly since the 1980s when US Fish and Wildlife Service data indicate they peaked, it’s irrelevant. Existing hunters are hunting more. When I crunched the data, it became clear that hunting license sales increased a whopping 30% between the 1980s and 2010s, and then the COVID-19 hunting boom increased hunter and license numbers even more. So, even if there are a few less hunters, those hunters are buying more licenses and spending more time crowding the woods.

Also, since the 1980s, the American landscape has changed in major ways. The US population size has increased by a third, the square footage of housing per person has doubled, and many former hunting spots are consequently residential neighborhoods now. The US simply doesn’t have the habitat needed to support the wildlife and hunters it used to.

matt rinella essay photomatt rinella essay photoLook, ma. I’m famous! Kurtis Frasier/Free Range American
As a result, big game draw odds have plummeted, private lands are increasingly leased for hunting and thus off-limits to the public, and public land hunting often begins with struggling to find parking at the trailhead, followed by struggling to find animals so pressured they suffer from PTSD. According to 2017 survey data, over half of hunters have abandoned spots due to crowding. In short, hunter numbers have grown beyond what the resource can support. I believe social media is largely responsible for this because it draws people afield under false pretenses and encourages hunting for unjust reasons.

I’d be remiss if I ignored my own history with hunting social media. I was never big on posting grip-and-grins online. Years ago, I completely stopped after seriously asking myself why I wanted lots of people to see what I had shot. Upon reflection, I realized bragging was my sole motivation. This troubled me. I’ve always had a low tolerance for bragging by others, so I disliked realizing I was guilty of it myself. It didn’t help that I was bragging about dead animals harvested for food. This seemed more consequential and perverse than the soccer trophies, kitchen remodels, and other inane shit people brag about online.



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Are you really Steve’s brother or just joking? Thanks for the clarification. Preston

 

[Sytes]

So, following the general dialogue:

Viewers guide a show's direction though based on a show's initial guidance.

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

 

[bullbugle307]

I like that tack and that's a good post, but there are problems with the above as well. The landscapes I hunt in are way better than the animals I kill, but I get nervous posting them on my non-public instagram, let alone a forum. Which flat out stinks. It's too easy for people to pin down where you were and show up, even if it's not a "good" spot.

If we're going down that rabbit hole, how do we even know our waypoints are secure from bad actors. They're stored in a server, and I assume that's accessible to employees at a minimum. Then you have the data security issue.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Are you really Steve’s brother or just joking? Thanks for the clarification. Preston

No. I just cut/pasted the article

 

[Pagosa]

Ok, thanks. I thought you wrote that

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Do yourself a favor and listen to Matt’s interview on the Blood Origins podcast. I did on the way home tonight. The last half is awesome entertainment. I really want to see his Hunt Purity Index. I have a feeling I wouldn’t make it over 5. He torches Rogan at the end. Great way to pass an hour drive in the snow.

 

[44hunter45]

So, following the general dialogue:

Viewers guide a show's direction though based on a show's initial guidance.

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

Maybe this veers off-topic some. But right now there are two or three threads going on related subjects and this could fit into any of them. I spent far too much time on it. I'm just gonna send it....

This leaves me excited about Fresh Tracks+. Now if only Starlink would stop slipping my delivery date so I could enjoy the experience.

This thread makes it all the more plain to me what a ground breaking decision it was for Randy and Matthew to break away from big tech. I am much more willing to BUY the product vs BE the product. Or be told by the machine what I want.

A subscription platform could allow Randy more content control and less concern of the ROi of educational content. "Rain Deer" and "The Dam That Never Was..." are my favorites of Randy's work (Along with the @Gerald Martin and his boys with @JohnCushman episodes.)( Mrs45 loves Marcus & Kara episodes). I hope that these kind of works could be funded other than out of Randy's checkbook. I would be open to crowdfunding works like this.

I appreciate that the women hunters Randy has featured are not going to be holding up a bighorn scrotum or spearing a bear any time soon. Gals like Tracy Pettet, Kara Landolfi, and Dr. Sophie Gilbert are role models I can watch with my granddaughter without concern.

HT is the only SM I use anymore apart from some LinkedIn. My FB and Twitter accounts are languishing for good reason. What I really like about HT is (real-time as I read this) there are 30,754 registered users and just under 100K threads. That sounds huge, but compared to FB or IG, its a pittance. If @Big Fin is trying to be Zuckerburg, he sucks at it. Thankfully, we know that is not the business plan.

My point being that HT feels like community, or family. When is the last time Mark Zuckerberg responded to one of your DMs or emails? Despite knowing the statistical unlikelihood that as one of 30K HT accounts, Randy knows my name, it still feels like family. And yes, Randy and Matthew both have answered me directly more than once.

I'm not a sycophant, but Randy's organization is far above the rest. That is why I am here. If I can do a little mentoring and advocacy here, all the better. My contribution pales to some of the hard core advocates on HT. But those same guys are cheering for my efforts as well.

Regarding Matt Rinella's piece- Is social media the problem, or is it the looniest Montana FWP Commission that has ever been assembled? Oh wait, it was on social media where a FWP commissioner posted a picture of herself proudly holding up a bighorn scrotum. So he does have point. However, its hard to reconcile the idea that there is less game when FWP and the MT Legislators are saying things like "over objective" and "too many elk". Maybe political swings and junk science have more influence on the ground than social media. I suppose one could argue that one drives the other.

I'm glad Matt is speaking his mind. Lord knows I've written the MeatEater crew some pretty direct emails over the years. To their credit, a fair number of those have been answered as well. The difference being- in my opinion - that Randy and Co. are interested in my opinion on content. MeatEater seemingly only uses emails as actual content.

When I was driving many hours each day for work, I was always needing more digital content. Now that I work from home, I don't have the time for it. My short list is basically Elk Talk and Hunt Talk Radio. Sometimes Mike Rowe. Nothing from the MeatEater stable survived the cut. I have never listened to Joe Rogan's own show and do not intend to.

Both MeatEater and OYOA teams are at some level a cult of personality, but isn't that what building a brand is? Even though some of the MeatEater shows and content are fingernails on a chalkboard to me, I'm actually not bashing the organization. Steven and Randy have different models, goals, and methods.

I own and enjoy Rinella's "Stars in the Sky". I recently watched it with one of my sons who has made the decision not to hunt any longer. There was never any point where the movie was going to change his mind. He called out every assumption and trope Rinella used, he burned every straw man Rinella built.

Finally - One concern I share with Matt Rinella is that our media is blowing up fragile places into destinations. I love Southeast Alaska and worry that films like "Rain Deer" and "Stars in the Sky" are causing some havens to be loved to death. I am fully aware of the irony, since it is those shows that made me aware of SE AK. I guess I got there before the maddening crowds and worry that the other bums are going to ruin it. This is a very real risk, however. I would hope that the place would be respected, but I see a lot of YouTube content from some real Bubbas that scares me in that regard. Its not scientific, but I asked NR hunters I met when I was there this August what got them interested. The answers were about 50/50 Randy's content or Steven's content. The sampling was about 30. When you are all on the IFA ferry ride, there is plenty of time to play sociologist. That is pretty telling regarding the impact of media.

I have wondered if, similarly, Randy's relationship with Beau Baty has Matt Rinella concerned because more people using llamas directly effects his hunting solitude.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Do yourself a favor and listen to Matt’s interview on the Blood Origins podcast. I did on the way home tonight. The last half is awesome entertainment. I really want to see his Hunt Purity Index. I have a feeling I wouldn’t make it over 5. He torches Rogan at the end. Great way to pass an hour drive in the snow.

"Joe Rogan is like a kid who goes to Disnleyland and rides space mountain, and then thinks that he's an astronaut."

 

[338win]

"Joe Rogan is like a kid who goes to Disnleyland and rides space mountain, and then thinks that he's an astronaut.

Perfect description. Joe doesn’t understand public hunting which was apparent on a podcast with Steve Rinella and 100% chance he wouldn’t be hunting if he was on his own in a otc unit.