Revise MT Tagging law

[RobG]

OK folks, now is your chance to be on the right side of history. . The law requiring tagging your animal "immediately" is admittedly ridiculous. How should it read?

Also, tagging and transporting in the field boned-out meat is a huge gray area that needs to be addressed. Carrying the validated tag in your pocket seems reasonable.

 

[Big Fin]

Since there are two bills currently introduced to change the rules in MT, maybe you can direct those legislators to the comments of this thread.

Can't remember what state has their statute written as below, but it I remember reading it this fall in their regs. It goes something like this.

The tag must be validated prior to removing any portion of the animal from the kill site to a place of mechanized transport. While transporting the animal from the field, the validated tag can remain with the hunter, though the tag must be securely attached to a portion of the animal prior to transporting via mechanized means.

Seems pretty common sense to me.

 

[elkantlers]

Tagging should happen before animal is moved from kill site. Tag should stay with the person who harvested the animal until you get to a point that all meat is together for transporting, and then tag should be attached to the antlers or largest portion of meat. Carrying a validated tag in your pocket is OK

 

[.280 Remington]

I like the wording Randy used

 

[RobG]

Since there are two bills currently introduced to change the rules in MT, maybe you can direct those legislators to the comments of this thread.

I'll do that. Were you thinking Essman and Welborn? Essman's proposed bill seems directly related, but the details aren't published; I didn't see anything related in a brief glance of Welborn's bill.

Can't remember what state has their statute written as below, but it I remember reading it this fall in their regs. It goes something like this.

The tag must be validated prior to removing any portion of the animal from the kill site to a place of mechanized transport. While transporting the animal from the field, the validated tag can remain with the hunter, though the tag must be securely attached to a portion of the animal prior to transporting via mechanized means.

Seems pretty common sense to me.

Maybe scratch the "to a place of mechanized transport." (What if you are packing it out on your back?) A logical delineation is removing the animal from the kill site.

The tag should also be validated if the hunter leaves the kill site so the hunter doesn't go high-grading or grab his wife and use her tag.

I think we should be able to attach the tag to the game bag containing boned meat since you can't really attach it to the meat itself. I asked a game warden about this during hunter's safety and he acted like he had never thought of it before (scary), but thought it was a good idea since it would be easier to check than having it at the bottom of the bag. Of course another warden might think differently unless it is written down.

 

[1976]

Maybe I am having a problem understanding what is so hard about taking electrical tape or duct tape or whatever and wrapping the hell out of the tag on the antlers or leg within minutes of walking up on the kill. I guess it was hammered into me at an early age that before all else is done that is the first item after the shaking stops. Every state I have hunted pretty much reads tag immediately, besides I think pictures look better when the tag and the orange where required are visible, but thats my opinion.

 

[passinthru]

Since there are two bills currently introduced to change the rules in MT, maybe you can direct those legislators to the comments of this thread.

Can't remember what state has their statute written as below, but it I remember reading it this fall in their regs. It goes something like this.

The tag must be validated prior to removing any portion of the animal from the kill site to a place of mechanized transport. While transporting the animal from the field, the validated tag can remain with the hunter, though the tag must be securely attached to a portion of the animal prior to transporting via mechanized means.

Seems pretty common sense to me.

Concise and clear, appears to work for them.

 

[RobG]

Maybe I am having a problem understanding what is so hard about taking electrical tape or duct tape or whatever and wrapping the hell out of the tag on the antlers or leg within minutes of walking up on the kill. I guess it was hammered into me at an early age that before all else is done that is the first item after the shaking stops. Every state I have hunted pretty much reads tag immediately, besides I think pictures look better when the tag and the orange where required are visible, but thats my opinion.

I agree, but "within a few minutes" is too vague. Phrases like "as soon as possible" are really impossible to comply with in a strict sense.

I'm not real keen on waiting until the animal is going to be moved - it just seems wrong to be hanging around that long with an untagged animal. It would also be easy to forget.

Another option would be to require the tag to be validated upon verifying that the animal is dead, but you don't have to attach the tag. I'm not sure what value attaching the tag adds. I guess LEO could tell from a distance that it has been tagged, but it sure screws things up if you are taking the animal out in multiple pieces.

 

[RobertR]

Rob G says>> Another option would be to require the tag be validated upon verifying the animal is dead.

I've seen this happen a couple times where the tag gets punched out and during the excitement the stuned animal runs off, it's not funny but it happens.

I think if the animal is cut in pieces to transport it should stay with the Hunter who shot the animal or attached to one of the game bags.

 

[Straight Arrow]

RobertR, having recently joined with my grandson in attending Montana Hunter Education (for the fourth time since my original class of 1957), I was reminded that there is a safe and certain method for determining if your downed game animal is dead. My understanding of Rob's option is that the certainty of death would first be determined before validation of the tag.

 

[cowboy]

We hunt in areas that quite frankly - an elk isn't coming out whole, it could be done in quarters but we choose to bone it using the gutless method. For safety reasons at my age in the terrain we are in I need 4 trips doing it myself. My sons can do it in 3 and I've seen them take a boned out elk in 2 packs - that was brutal.
I may leave some bags of meat for a couple of days at the kill site and get it on the way back to camp the next day or day after. Many times the successful Hunter starts packing meat while the remaining in party continue to hunt - those still hunting always help pack meat on there way back to camp on following day - this bag of meat may or may not have a tag in it.
I even checked to see if I could photo copy my license and put one in each bag - nope - not legal by G&F standards.
I have no problem in practicing legal methods of tagging but quite frankly I'm tired of laws being implemented that put burden of proof on the legal/ethical hunters.
I once approached 4 game wardens in the back of a meeting room and asked how it was best handled when you bone out meat and bring it out in multilple days - the answers were like a pin ball machine with the final verdict being READ THE REGS.
Whatever comes about on this - get some hunters involved that actually get out there and do it.

 

[RobertR]

Straight Arrow something like this.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u1i2FlY-9Sw

 

[Straight Arrow]

RobertR, no I don't doubt the occurrence; in fact it's happened to me. But I certainly don't notch my tag until I know the animal is dead. That is the point.

 

[brownbear932008]

There are some good points so far but not all animals are moved by motorized means what if for example Joe Blow is hunting on his neighbors place takes a deer and drags it back to his barn for process when should he check said deer? I think a good point for an animal to be checked is before it is moved from place of kill site so a guy could take the animal, verify it's down, calm down story tell, snap photos, begin processing by gutting/getting meat off bone if needed, then tag before moving any part from site. I also feel the tag should only need validated by notching and it can be in pack or pocket of hunter to lower risk of losing tag in the wilderness.

I speak from experience on losing a tag did that once while dragging out a doe in Virginia took animal about a mile into national forest moved to truck drove to check station just to find out my tag was missing. Needless to say drove back to parking area began back tracking luckily only had to go about 100 yards from roadway found tag within feet of a creek where it had fell off the animal. Granted I was young and dumb didn't know what electrical tape was back then. But this stuff happens all the time.

 

[Sytes]

Completing the tag should be immediate.

My take... complete the tag immediately AND place a "print" of the animal's blood on the tag itself. No need to affix the tag to the animal nor to the meat in the freezer. If there are poaching concerns, the blood will be the vital source of evidence to present the facts. The burden to retain the tag is upon the hunter. Nice little ziplock baggies and presto, evidence bag secured.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I like the wording Randy used

Same here--very simple and easy to comply with and no need for a GW to interpret what is meant with that wording!

 

[tjones]

Maybe the thing to do as hunters is to read the tagging and license requirements of the state you are headed to before you buy the license and tags. It is to confusing or hard to understand and comply with then maybe that state is not for you.

 

[1976]

I still think people are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. This year and in past years in MT I have been checked packing out my elk. When the warden asks for my tag I tell him it is on the head back at the scene of the kill, and will be the last item packed out and have had no problem, I do have proof of sex in the first load coming out and also a kodak moment he can look at if he has questions about legal bull.This has worked every time from MT to KS with no hassle. The incident with the MN hunter I believe is total BS but it is what it is, some wardens received an A is butthead 101.

 

[RobG]

I speak from experience on losing a tag did that once while dragging out a doe in Virginia took animal about a mile into national forest moved to truck drove to check station just to find out my tag was missing. Needless to say drove back to parking area began back tracking luckily only had to go about 100 yards from roadway found tag within feet of a creek where it had fell off the animal. Granted I was young and dumb didn't know what electrical tape was back then. But this stuff happens all the time.

I had this happen before I learned to use electrical tape. I think the tags used to come with wires or something to attach it to the animal and it never worked well. In hunter's safety they now teach you to use tape, but the regs should also suggest electrical tape to keep the honest people from becoming criminals.

 

[cowboy]

I still think people are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. This year and in past years in MT I have been checked packing out my elk. When the warden asks for my tag I tell him it is on the head back at the scene of the kill, and will be the last item packed out and have had no problem,

I don't know how to break this to you nicely. You have been illegal in Mt. Tag stays with meat not the head. You have been fortunate to have been bumping into game wardens that are understanding.