BigHornRam
Well-known member
Yep. That will put a lot of accountants out of business, but the appraisal business will make up for the losses.
Retire early to hunt more?
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VikingsGuy
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Nope, just making sure our constitutionally provided income tax actually taxes the various ways folks make money.
It makes no sense that if the efforts of my labor is defined as salary it is taxed at damn near 50% with state taxes included but if the efforts of my labor resulted in purposely unrealized gains 100x of that amount that it is zero taxed. It is a complete artificial economic anomaly brought to you by the 0.01% (and their financiers) that drives crony capitalism and some how has been bought into by the other 99.99%.
This is not about respecting private property or about envy or greed or communism or small government - it is a completely made up and artificial distinction promoted by a very small but very influential group that has convinced a population with little actual information about how it works that it is somehow the American way.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Funny, the financiers who are making all these millions seem to believe it too. Or are they just gullible suckers too?
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Its permitted scope and use has changed over the years. To the extent it supports efficient real estate management it serves a purpose. Probably need to continue to manage around the edges if it is being used as a shelter of income rather than avoidance of punitive taxes during normal business operations. They already yanked planes, vacation homes and franchises out of it. Normal pruning.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Average joe stock traders do the same thing. They "ironically" get to write off bad trades against profitable trades. Should this be means tested too, what you can write off? How about gambling losses?They repay the loan, but only when they have to. If you want an example, this is the one that comes to mind for me. You have to sort of get over the source, I assure you it is accurate. A lot of those listed got margin calls in 2008 and had to sell equity to pay down the debt. The entire process previously describe for Bezos, Buffett, Bloomberg, etc is that they become highly levered to the value of the company. When that value falls, the broker wants the debt paid back. Ironically, they get big tax bills that year to. But one thing that hasn't been mentioned and is the key driver to the whole thing is compounding. The longer the taxes can be deferred, the larger the asset base on which the return can compound over time. Keep in mind you only hear about the successes, never the failures (unless spectacular), and even more irony, those losses are a tax write off.
Big guys get margin calls, too
Media moguls are among those sighing with relief after Monday's market rally.www.hollywoodreporter.com
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VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Don’t worry - we lawyers and accountants will make sure it is sufficiently complicated that you still need usYep. That will put a lot of accountants out of business, but the appraisal business will make up for the losses.
D
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BigHornRam
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While redirecting the pitchforks towards the Bezos class. It's starting to all make sense to me now!Don’t worry - we lawyers and accountants will make sure it is sufficiently complicated that you still need us
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Going along with the false narrative works in their advantage as well.
D
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Agreed. Though are tax code already "steers" people into making certain decisions, I'm thinking to take the standard deduction or not. We make the standard sweet enough that most people choose not to itemize.
What if you said, if you make 0 - 10MM a year and have stock holdings whose market value is over 10mm you must pay 2% of the total value of holdings as tax. But if you make over 10MM you are exempt from that tax.
So essentially someone making 200k with 8,000,000 assets is treated like normal, but someone who has a massive portfolio needs to either pay a "wealth tax" or have a source of income of at least 10MM.
So suddenly all C-suite salaries would jump from 100k to 10MM and then at least they would be paying an order of magnitude more than they are now.
ignorethefringes
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I guess what I meant was, how else you do you ultimately figure out the "income" if not for figuring growth in net worth year over year? If we starting finding a way to tax unrealized gains then I assume to have to start accounting for unrealized losses as well. That is what got me to the overall net worth calculation.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
So Bill Gates likely used the 1031 exchange laws to sell Microsoft shares in exchange for his recent farm land purchases and was able to defer the taxes. I'm sure he had some good lawyers and accountants make sure it was done properly. Good business move or shirking his "fair share"?
SAJ-99
Well-known member
No, it isn't the same thing. I don't like the idea of taxing unrealized gains. That sets itself up from a LOT of other problems. I should be able to use my trading losses to offset my gains. But only on a realized basis. If I "invest: a bunch in a business and it goes belly up, those losses should be tax deductible and offset versus other gains/income. That said, in how the ultra rich use the tax rules, they shouldn't be allowed to borrow money and use the interest payment to offset income while letting their equity invests grow tax free. That has to be addressed. Simply make a rule that counts that debt as income and see what happens.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Lotta lenders and businesses will go TU if you do that.
it's a different class of lending that would be taxed, i assume.
they're wouldn't tax your personal loan to finish your basement or the business loan taken out to start a local pizza joint. especially not the home loan that millennial couple Chad and Brooke got on 3% down so they can buy their first home.
as was mentioned, it's a type of lending that anyone with less than 25 million in assets probably doesn't even know exists
Mallardsx2
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OP- Look up the rule of 55 and adjust accordingly. Put as much money in Roth 401K as you can. Let your 401K match (it tax free so you will pay taxes on it later) grow and live off of that until you run it dry. Then ride your Roth into the sunset and then have your cake and eat it too when you are 62 and you can get SS.
My plan is pretty much along those lines. 55 and I. AM. DONE.
My plan is pretty much along those lines. 55 and I. AM. DONE.
D
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Wait you mean you don't work with HSBC's Bespoke lending team?
Bespoke lending – how to fund your dream purchase - HSBC Private Banking
It can be frustrating if the item you’ve set your heart on comes to market but your funds are tied up and you risk missing the opportunity.
www.privatebanking.hsbc.com
"Whether you want to splash out on a luxury yacht, purchase a holiday home in a desirable location or treat yourself to a classic car at auction, timing can be everything. Many of the most sought-after passion purchases owe much of their desirability to the fact that they are unique or extremely rare and that the opportunity to acquire them is fleeting. And even though you may technically be able to afford them, if you can’t put your hands on the cash quickly enough, it can mean missing out."
Gee-whiz I wouldn't want someone to miss out on the opportunity to own a stolen Iraqi vase.
Thank goodness for their Marketable securities backed financing
We have the proficiency to accept single stock as collateral without liquidating your stocks. This tactic allows you to keep your long-term investment plan on track, so you will receive the dividends, interest or capital appreciation that may accrue.
You may have amassed significant shares in your employer’s company, sold a business in return for company shares, or hold a portfolio with concentrated stock positions. You may use your concentrated portfolio as collateral to obtain the financing you need without disturbing your long-term goals.
Marketable Securities Backed Finance - HSBC Global Private Banking
Marketable Securities Backed Finance | Discover how marketable securities backed finance allows you to raise finance against existing collateral.
www.privatebanking.hsbc.com
Enjoy your Champagne Wishes and Caviar Dreams free of pesky taxes, only at HSBC
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BigHornRam
Well-known member
Sounds like even millenials can take advantage of this great lending opportunity, not just the ultra rich. Wonder what kind of loan shark rates and fees these guys charge?Wait you mean you don't work with HSBC's Bespoke lending team?
Bespoke lending – how to fund your dream purchase - HSBC Private Banking
It can be frustrating if the item you’ve set your heart on comes to market but your funds are tied up and you risk missing the opportunity.
"Whether you want to splash out on a luxury yacht, purchase a holiday home in a desirable location or treat yourself to a classic car at auction, timing can be everything. Many of the most sought-after passion purchases owe much of their desirability to the fact that they are unique or extremely rare and that the opportunity to acquire them is fleeting. And even though you may technically be able to afford them, if you can’t put your hands on the cash quickly enough, it can mean missing out."
Gee-whiz I wouldn't want someone to miss out on the opportunity to own a stolen Iraqi vase.
Thank goodness for their Marketable securities backed financing
We have the proficiency to accept single stock as collateral without liquidating your stocks. This tactic allows you to keep your long-term investment plan on track, so you will receive the dividends, interest or capital appreciation that may accrue.
You may have amassed significant shares in your employer’s company, sold a business in return for company shares, or hold a portfolio with concentrated stock positions. You may use your concentrated portfolio as collateral to obtain the financing you need without disturbing your long-term goals.
Marketable Securities Backed Finance - HSBC Global Private Banking
Marketable Securities Backed Finance | Discover how marketable securities backed finance allows you to raise finance against existing collateral.
ignorethefringes
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- Messages
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I have a lot of mixed feelings on some of this stuff that are difficult to articulate, probably because I haven't thought them through hard enough. For example, I'm not a fan of taxing unrealized gains. But frankly, I'm not a fan of taxing money made on investments either. For example, I paid income taxes on my money already. If I made a smart (or lucky) investment with that already taxed money, and make more money, it bugs me that I get taxed on that gain too.Sounds like even millenials can take advantage of this great lending opportunity, not just the ultra rich. Wonder what kind of loan shark rates and fees these guys charge?
But, regardless of that other stuff, the above is something that I've thought about throughout this thread. Most of these opportunities are technically available to the vast majority, not just the very wealthy. If the person and the bank are willing to come to agreeable terms regarding interest rate, repayment timeframe, etc. what do I care? Presumably I could do the same thing if I had the collateral available.
Again, not always well thought out. I appreciate everyone's insights.
