Restoring a riparian zone

[gouch]

We all know the importance of riparian zones along our streams and rivers, so when a human caused fire devastates several miles of a riparian zone, immediate action must be taken.

So, what to do. First you create a committee of uninformed, ignorant people to organize the restoration efforts. This committee will hold many, many meetings to discuss the matter and include self-proclaimed experts on every phase of the efforts. So everything gets done right. Then bring in as many interested citizens to give their input to make sure the finished product will please everyone. Then organize fund raisers and apply for government grants because it is going to be very expensive. Once you have some money you have to make signs to put up to tell people what you are going to do. You have to put up a bunch of educational kiosks to inform the people about riparian zones and natural streams.



After that you have to hire contractors to do the heavy lifting and organize volentires to do the grunt work

In in just 4 1/2 years you are well on the way to a beautiful, natural and fully functioning riparian zone.

 

[gouch]

The absolute worst thing would be to do nothing and hope Mother Nature might fix things. Then all you will have in 4 1/2 years is:

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

Great picture of the wood ducks. They never sit still for me.

 

[LuketheDog]

Hey, I bet after they got done littering 1,000 little metal and plastic flags they got to go to a trendy brewery and discuss how great they were, because it's all about the feels man! As far as creating habitat, I bet a couple spiders love tucking up under that info sign in a heavy rainstorm. Win-win!

 

[gouch]

Hey, I bet after they got done littering 1,000 little metal and plastic flags they got to go to a trendy brewery and discuss how great they were, because it's all about the feels man! As far as creating habitat, I bet a couple spiders love tucking up under that info sign in a heavy rainstorm. Win-win!

There was another similar project 15 years ago. Those flags are faded and rotting but they are still there.

You or I throw a gum wrapper on the ground and it's a $500 fine. Go figure?

 

[Perlodid]

I don't know the specifics on any of this, but I don't see why they even tried to do anything? It was just because of the fire? I'm not super well-versed on fire-related riparian restoration literature, but I was under the impression that unless the fires were super severe there was really no reason to spend any money doing replantings.*
Relevant article summarizing Halofsky and Hibbs 2009

*At least in the PNW, maybe not accurate elsewhere

 

[gouch]

I don't know the specifics on any of this, but I don't see why they even tried to do anything? It was just because of the fire? I'm not super well-versed on fire-related riparian restoration literature, but I was under the impression that unless the fires were super severe there was really no reason to spend any money doing replantings.*
Relevant article summarizing Halofsky and Hibbs 2009

*At least in the PNW, maybe not accurate elsewhere

This is my whole point. To my untrained eye the efforts to fix the fire damage are causing far more damage than the fire damage itself. And the areas left untouched are recovering extremely rapidly all on their own.

Another case of loving nature to death.

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

This is my whole point. To my untrained eye the efforts to fix the fire damage are causing far more damage than the fire damage itself. And the areas left untouched are recovering extremely rapidly all on their own.

Another case of loving nature to death.

If we just have one more AFR/ KS Wild press release about utilizing cultural knowledge for controlled burns I'm certain we'll have this wildfire thing solved.

Hey, I bet after they got done littering 1,000 little metal and plastic flags they got to go to a trendy brewery and discuss how great they were, because it's all about the feels man! As far as creating habitat, I bet a couple spiders love tucking up under that info sign in a heavy rainstorm. Win-win!

Jokes on you. We don't have trendy little breweries here. They had to go to the new Margaritaville.

 

[Perlodid]

This is my whole point. To my untrained eye the efforts to fix the fire damage are causing far more damage than the fire damage itself. And the areas left untouched are recovering extremely rapidly all on their own.

Another case of loving nature to death.

Right, and my point of bringing the literature up is to question what the heck they expected to happen? Like unless this spot was an absolute moonscape, there's no reason to assume this would ever be worthwhile, assuming that this is the extent of what was done.

 

[Bonasababy]

You can't tell anything from the pictures without context guys. What was there before the fire? What was being used in restoration efforts? What shows up if you do nothing.

Not nearly as simple as implied.

 

[Gellar]

Riparian invasive are no joke. Try getting rid of Japanese Knotweed or garlic mustard sometime.

 

[mtmiller]

Interesting obligates.

 

[gouch]

Right after the fire there was nothing but dead trees and ash left. It looked like there would never be life there again. As of last fall the cottonwoods were 15' to 20' tall. The willows 10' to 15' and all the shrubs, forbs and grasses fully recovered. Then in that 1/4 mile stretch that they wanted to "fix", they came in with bulldozers and excavators and ripped out 80% of the vegetation and re-routed the creek channel to make it more natural. Then we had a high-water event this winter that re-routed the stream back to where nature felt it should be and washed away tons of topsoil left bare by all the construction work.

Now they are planting native plants. Each one of those flags is by a new plant. I don't understand why they can't put a plant in the ground without littering the entire area with orange flags. Especially since the whole idea is to have a natural landscape.

The main evasive plant they want to get rid of is the blackberries. They crowd out native plants and are the main accelerant that made that fire burn so hot. I have personally fought blackberries all my adult life and I don't think it is possible to eradicate them. A couple of weeks ago I ran into the guy who was hired to do the job of going in and getting rid of the evasive plants, as he was surveying the area. He told me that he had talked to a biologist with the Audobon society about possible problems such as working around nesting birds. The bird guy asked him if he could possibly leave the blackberries because they are such good habitat for so many birds and animals. So, I guess you just can't win.

The fire was a very devastating fire burning over 3000 homes and businesses, my house included. This restoration project is just one of the many feel-good projects that sprung out of a desire to show how strong and resilient the community is. Not necessarily because they are needed or make anything better. More of a "look at us, aren't we great" type of thing.

 

[texwest44]

And to think, it all could have been avoided if they had just bulldozed the entire area 40 years ago, paved it, and then built a data center on it. When will people learn??

 

[Perlodid]

Right after the fire there was nothing but dead trees and ash left. It looked like there would never be life there again. As of last fall the cottonwoods were 15' to 20' tall. The willows 10' to 15' and all the shrubs, forbs and grasses fully recovered. Then in that 1/4 mile stretch that they wanted to "fix", they came in with bulldozers and excavators and ripped out 80% of the vegetation and re-routed the creek channel to make it more natural. Then we had a high-water event this winter that re-routed the stream back to where nature felt it should be and washed away tons of topsoil left bare by all the construction work.

Now they are planting native plants. Each one of those flags is by a new plant. I don't understand why they can't put a plant in the ground without littering the entire area with orange flags. Especially since the whole idea is to have a natural landscape.

The main evasive plant they want to get rid of is the blackberries. They crowd out native plants and are the main accelerant that made that fire burn so hot. I have personally fought blackberries all my adult life and I don't think it is possible to eradicate them. A couple of weeks ago I ran into the guy who was hired to do the job of going in and getting rid of the evasive plants, as he was surveying the area. He told me that he had talked to a biologist with the Audobon society about possible problems such as working around nesting birds. The bird guy asked him if he could possibly leave the blackberries because they are such good habitat for so many birds and animals. So, I guess you just can't win.

The fire was a very devastating fire burning over 3000 homes and businesses, my house included. This restoration project is just one of the many feel-good projects that sprung out of a desire to show how strong and resilient the community is. Not necessarily because they are needed or make anything better. More of a "look at us, aren't we great" type of thing.

So it was a severe fire + a lot more extensive than just riparian replanting. I'll withhold judgment with that in mind, even if it is going slower than the other section due to the lengthy planning process. Hopefully the plant community and the stream itself ends up reflecting what they are shooting for.

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

And to think, it all could have been avoided if they had just bulldozed the entire area 40 years ago, paved it, and then built a data center on it. When will people learn??

Oh those burned too. We figured they wouldn't even save the Home Depot the night it kicked off.

A couple of weeks ago I ran into the guy who was hired to do the job of going in and getting rid of the evasive plants, as he was surveying the area. He told me that he had talked to a biologist with the Audobon society about possible problems such as working around nesting birds. The bird guy asked him if he could possibly leave the blackberries because they are such good habitat for so many birds and animals. So, I guess you just can't win.

The fire was a very devastating fire burning over 3000 homes and businesses, my house included. This restoration project is just one of the many feel-good projects that sprung out of a desire to show how strong and resilient the community is. Not necessarily because they are needed or make anything better. More of a "look at us, aren't we great" type of thing.

This is so on perfectly on brand for our valley

Love it to death, but if everybody aint happy then nobody is happy.

 

[LuketheDog]

You can't tell anything from the pictures without context guys. What was there before the fire? What was being used in restoration efforts? What shows up if you do nothing.

Not nearly as simple as implied.

Good point, I just can't imagine how the world managed to recover from fires before we all got here!

 

[LuketheDog]

There was another similar project 15 years ago. Those flags are faded and rotting but they are still there.

You or I throw a gum wrapper on the ground and it's a $500 fine. Go figure?

Yeah, I've fished the Arkansas River in Colorado many times where "restoration" work was done years ago, there are big pieces of erosion control geotextile waving in the current next to the still-eroding banks. It's a real eyesore.

 

[Bonasababy]

I should clarify I know nothing about the site, but I do have lots of direct experience in management within riparian areas including restorations.

That fuels my it ain't that simple take, IMO worth talking to pros rather than reacting with what seems to be scorn regarding the perceived stupidity or recovery efforts.

In my case, I have seen multiple situations where active management is far preferable to doing nothing, and that may well not be visible or understandable without some context to the average person.

Just some examples--doing nothing where invasives have taken hold after a major disturbance--a pretty common thing--can make an invasive problem far worse. They move down stream pretty readily--doesn't take long before you can have miles long infestations.

And in some places while it defies many expectations the fisheries pros tell us some trees and shrubs make erosion and bank stability issues worse than restoring to deep rooted forbs and grasses.

For cool water trout streams long lived species that provide shade are preferable if the stream is prone to warming without them, and species favored by beavers can be highly discouraged as well.

Just a few things that come to mind, again not sure if they apply in this situation.

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

I should clarify I know nothing about the site, but I do have lots of direct experience in management within riparian areas including restorations.

That fuels my it ain't that simple take, IMO worth talking to pros rather than reacting with what seems to be scorn regarding the perceived stupidity or recovery efforts.

In my case, I have seen multiple situations where active management is far preferable to doing nothing, and that may well not be visible or understandable without some context to the average person.

Just some examples--doing nothing where invasives have taken hold after a major disturbance--a pretty common thing--can make an invasive problem far worse. They move down stream pretty readily--doesn't take long before you can have miles long infestations.

And in some places while it defies many expectations the fisheries pros tell us some trees and shrubs make erosion and bank stability issues worse than restoring to deep rooted forbs and grasses.

For cool water trout streams long lived species that provide shade are preferable if the stream is prone to warming without them, and species favored by beavers can be highly discouraged as well.

Just a few things that come to mind, again not sure if they apply in this situation.

@gouch and I are both pro/ pro associated here, and intimately familiar with the area. There isn't much more to this story than it's fun for community orgs to play ecology in city parks.