Remington filing for bankruptcy?
- Thread starter Jim/Wa
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noharleyyet
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Remingtons are a smith's best friend....
Irrelevant
Well-known member
nope. auto.
Buckyranger42
Active member
To each their own on if you celebrate or dread this situation, but to me Remington is as ‘Mercan as apple pie and the 30-06. M700 rifles and 870 shotguns just feel right.
So, hopefully we can all wish the company well but I have observed some consistent and relatively simple QC issues that need to be fixed. Even taking those issues into account, let’s look at the value: take a modern Rem 700 from the factory and stick a couple hundred dollars into it at a gunsmith and you now have an awesome rifle still at a net lower cost than [fill in the blank]. My experience, anyway...
So, hopefully we can all wish the company well but I have observed some consistent and relatively simple QC issues that need to be fixed. Even taking those issues into account, let’s look at the value: take a modern Rem 700 from the factory and stick a couple hundred dollars into it at a gunsmith and you now have an awesome rifle still at a net lower cost than [fill in the blank]. My experience, anyway...
Precisely why I don't want a foreign company to take possession. mtmuley
ImBillT
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Depends on what you call a decrease on quality. The actions are better than ever. The barrels were always a crap shoot, but if you rechamber them, most are pretty good. The base models did experience a downgrade on stocks over the years as they went from cut checkering, to pressed, to a plastic stock, and plastic trigger guard. The mid grade stuff got a slight downgrade as they went from H-S Precision to B&C. Largely the 700 has risen in price more slowly than almost anything else that exists, yet the most important parts of the rifle have remained the same or actually improved due to CNC machining. Does an old polished and hot blued 700 action look better than today’s bead blasted and blackened action? Yep. Does a walnut ADL with hand cut checkering look better than a Tupperware stock? Yep. On the other hand, out of the box they generally shoot pretty similarly, and rebarreled I’d take a new one over an old one. You’d be surprised how many of those old ones have misaligned scope base holes, out of square action faces and bolt surfaces etc. that are actually much improved on those manufactured today.
Much of the above likely applies to all brands.
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EastTNHunter
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Remington and Cabelas acquisitions were quite different, and I wouldn’t lump them together. I didn’t like either one, but if you look into the details of the Freedom Group’s acquisition of all of the firearms companies, with Remington being the biggest brand, then it will make you cringe. The actual acquisition vehicle is a shell game designed to suck all equity from the company’s portfolio, transfer it into the pockets of the acquisition firm, and then saddle the firearms company with massive amounts of debt and have to figure their own way out of it. It’s almost like a reverse Ponzi scheme.
Edit: I did not realize that the Cabelas and Remington acquisitions had some parallels, especially in their CEO.
Interesting (long) article on Remington/Cerberus (Freedom Group is a Cerberus subsidiary)
How America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery (Published 2019)
When a secretive private equity firm bought Remington, sales were strong and the future bright. A decade later, the company couldn’t escape its debts.
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44hunter45
Well-known member
I've never been all that enamored of M700's. But I get they are as versatile a platform as the Stoner.
For all you wanting to hoard them before the supplies are dried up, Midway announced today a sale on long and short 700 actions for $125.
For all you wanting to hoard them before the supplies are dried up, Midway announced today a sale on long and short 700 actions for $125.
MO Betta
Well-known member
Long Magnum receiver is tempting, wish I would have grabbed one of those $179 full 700 combos from the Cabela's Bargain Cave before they ran out.
L
longbow51
Guest
Wow. My wife has a 700 laminated VLS from the 80s in .260 that is extremely accurate. I was aware of the trigger issues. While nothing wrong with FN or Beretta (I have a beautiful Beretta double barrel) I sure would hate to see another American company be owned by the EU, or worse, the Chinese. I recall though, that Ruger went through a time when they suffered with quality, and I guess the new guy in charge is a real gun nut and they are doing better.
Maybe something similar will happen with Remington.
Maybe something similar will happen with Remington.
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1100RemingtonMan
Well-known member
Goes to show what BAD Management can do. Remington still makes great guns. The one who call some of there products no good are looking at the lower priced guns they make. Pick up a New 870 Wingmaster it’s excellent a Express model not so much.
Pick up a Remington 700 SPS not to great but a 700 Sendero it Excellent.
The problem in the Gun industry it is a race to the bottom as people want cheep.
Pick up a Remington 700 SPS not to great but a 700 Sendero it Excellent.
The problem in the Gun industry it is a race to the bottom as people want cheep.
LaSportsman
Well-known member
But other gun manufacturers have done great in the last decade. To fail in the current gun market points to bad leadership. There is demand at many price points. Browning XBolts sell like crazy around the $1,000 mark, Christensen Arms in the next bracket and custom rifles keep selling.
MO Betta
Well-known member
The Times article EastTNHunter linked paints an interesting picture of how this debt was accrued. It wasn't just bad management, it was downright predatory.
I've had my Remington 1100 since I bought it new in 1980 and have never had a problem. Who knows how many thousands of rounds have gone through it without a hitch.
Buckyranger42
Active member
This may be redundant given the age of this thread, but it’s my understanding a significant contributor to Remington’s struggles was Bushmaster, the AR line they owned which took a huge hit post-Sandy Hook tragedy. Quality concerns in their core product categories certainly contributed to their struggles, but I‘m not sure it would have played out the way it has were it not for the litigation against Remington holding them responsible for that tragedy.
antelopedundee
Well-known member
Got a notice today about a meeting with creditors. Not sure why I got it.
I got one as well? Not sure why unless it's because I submitted to have a trigger replaced as part of the class action deal a few years ago.
I do hope they stay an american company and I have my fingers crossed that Marlin will get sold off to someone who cares enough to build a decent lever gun again. I have had 3 remlins and each had issues that should have been addressed before they left the factory.
Maybe H&R/NEF will be resurrected as well and we could buy quality single shots that aren't Brazilian junk and don't cost as much as a Henry.
Cheesehead
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Bankrupt Gun Maker Remington Outdoor to Be Broken Up and Sold
Gun maker Remington Outdoor will be broken up and sold after a multiday bankruptcy auction, in which seven different buyers won the bidding for different parcels of the company’s weapons and ammunition holdings.
Gun maker Remington Outdoor will be broken up and sold after a multiday bankruptcy auction saw seven different buyers win the bidding for parcels of the company’s weapons and ammunition holdings.
Sales of Remington’s ammunition and weapons manufacturing business, the Remington brand and others will bring in at least $155 million to be applied against the company’s debts.
Lawyers for Remington haven’t responded to requests to comment on the auction results, which were partially revealed Sunday in court filings.
Judge Clifton R. Jessup Jr. has scheduled a Tuesday hearing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Decatur, Ala., to consider approval of the auction results.
The auction is the culmination of Remington’s second bankruptcy of recent years. The Huntsville, Ala., company filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in late July, saying it didn’t have the cash to make weapons to satisfy demand for its products.
The Covid-19 pandemic and civil unrest have Americans stocking up on guns and ammunition, but Remington said it was short of funds, despite having erased hundreds of millions of dollars in debt in a 2018 bankruptcy.
The company is facing a lawsuit over its marketing of the Bushmaster rifle, which was used in the December 2012 killing of 20 children and six adult school staffers at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn.
The 2020 bankruptcy halted a lawsuit brought by the families of some of the Sandy Hook victims, which had been preserved in the first pass through chapter 11.
Remington hasn’t said what its drive to throw its assets on the bankruptcy auction block would mean for the Sandy Hook lawsuit or for company retirees who crowded into a session with bankruptcy administrators, asking what would become of their benefits.
The biggest buy revealed so far is Vista Outdoor Inc.’s purchase of Remington’s Lonoke ammunition business, at $81.4 million. Sierra Bullets Inc. of Missouri, won the bidding on another part of Remington’s ammunition business, with a $30.5 million offer, court papers show.
Sturm Ruger & Co. will get part of Remington’s weapons business, with a $30 million offer, while Roundhill Group LLC is paying $13 million for other elements of the firearms-manufacturing operation. JJE Capital Holdings LLC is buying H&R, Parker and several other firearms brands.
Sportsman’s Warehouse Inc., is getting the Tapco brand, court papers reveal.
Nevada’s Franklin Armory Inc. was declared the winning bidder for Remington’s Bushmaster brand. A spokesperson for Franklin Armory wasn’t immediately available Sunday to comment.
