Relax, Everything is Going to be Okay!

[trackerbacker]

I don’t know that floods plain surveys and LOMRs and CLOMRs are quite as simplistic as they’re being made out to be

Can't answer any of that. The use of, or how they work didn't matter to me, what their result provide is all I cared about

Arent you in Wy?

Been accused of worse.

Idiots out walking around.

Anyway.... good luck in your search for the gov boogeyman. Lemme know when ya get him!

No no no....I ain't looking for him....looking for him to stay away, yes..

 

[texwest44]

If you are saying your fear is that Trump's shotgun approach to downsizing government is a precursor to the privatization of public lands, then no, I hadn't picked up on that in this discussion. I also don't believe it.

That is effectively what I'm (we're) saying, yes. If you're interested in an explanation, it goes something like this: historically, it's been a common argument amongst the privatization crowd that because the federal government is so ineffective at managing public land, that land should be turned over to state ownership for management. The justification is that because states are more locally connected to those lands, they would have greater ability to assess and manage. The issue with this claim, and why I think it's taken a back seat to other arguments in recent times, is that there was never any real meaty data to back it up. It sounded nice, but there was no real substance to it. And of course the dirty little secret is the fact that once the state owns the land, private parties can purchase it for private ownership. The federal-to-state transfer is a necessary step to being able to purchase the land. Utah and Nevada are good examples of how this system works.

Our concern is that hammering the federal land agencies will weaken their ability to effectively manage, ultimately creating a situation where those unsubstantiated claims of ineffective management suddenly become substantiated. It's a precursor step to enabling the government to say, "we clearly can't do the job, so we're ceding these lands to someone who can." Of course if you've spent time in the military or military-adjacent industries, you're quite familiar with this line of reasoning, and you've seen the havoc it can wreak with instances of corruption and misplaced priorities. It's also a conversation that's been going on with other government services (USPS, health care, etc).

Are we wrong to be concerned? Anything is possible of course, but with the amount of work actively being done to shift public lands to private ownership, and the real lack of guarantee from the current administration that such risks don't exist, we feel pretty justified to be worried and vigilant.

 

[cgasner1]

Yes, some people are dicks occasionally. Most don't make it a hobby though. I replied to a comment on his thread, then was called out for trying to derail his thread. I guess it's just odd to me to see someone who consistently derails threads, and is undoubtedly the most condescending person on this site being protected by mods. I was just making an observation.

Moving on.

I posted a thread a few days ago about DOGE and some interesting findings. It was deleted pretty quickly after. Why? It would be a good place to see some of the most interesting pieces of overspending in the government. I had seen several screenshots that were posted on other threads, and it is intriguing how much money is being wasted.

In the mod’s defense of the doge thread I sent a request for it because I’m just sick of all this shit on a hunting forum. I agree with you it’s very interesting but can someone just go shoot a bear or something

 

[trackerbacker]

Good lord it's hard to wade through your word salad just to find there isn't a damn thing but nasty kale in said salad.

I guess if you don't like kale, stop ordering and eating the kale salad?

Seems obvious, need help though?

 

[noharleyyet]

What is this compulsion to read stuff that you know will pull your trigger...then report it?

...and the upside is that I've completely flummoxed a few of my closest colleagues with Buzz's florid deprecations.

 

[Bonasababy]

Wasn't "due process' for the executive branch just held back in November? Seems it was..

So you would advise studying a drunken sailor spending for 4 years, and then, knowingly be able to do nothing because of time?

If my legs bleeding out under a 18" I beam, I want the doctor who's going to save me, not the doctor trying to save my leg. Or wonder if he can call me sir or ma'am. Or wonder if my wife will be okay with the fact I have only half a leg tattoo.

Save me, not the leg. We've been saving legs (toes mostly, and others at that) for far too long

This is corrective behavior, what you're proposing does nothing and will achieve nothing, because time. Both teams know this.

Lets expand on this thought. Why then is DOGE not doing things that are ripe for saving money? Like finally taking the advice of multiple reports over the years and hiring more IRS folks to go after and collect money from those not paying their fair share and cheating? Or NOT continuing the Trump tax cuts the cost of which by themselves far blow away any savings from this DOGE chainsaw project?

That's my take.

I get wanting to save money.

I get thinking there is waste that can be cut--but the best ways to make a real difference there are not being utilized and won't be by the current regime.

The old what's good for the goose (since you like analogies) isn't being honored by those who think DOGE is doing some lasting improvement. There are ways to save far more money that aren't being considered and won't be.

 

[Bonasababy]

Easy peezy. Refund is already in my bank account.

https://www.hrblock.com/online-tax-filing/?utm_medium=Paidsearch&utm_source=admedia&utm_campaign=Search_7_HRBlock_Brand_Assisted&gad_source=1

Smart of those who filed before a bunch of IRS employees were laid off!

 

[Flynarrow]

@sapperJ24

Responding here because buzz is protected and gets his own safe space (while being allowed to derail anyone else's thread and has piles of times).

Regardless...

I understand it's difficult or even impossible to fire employees that have been working a gov job for a long time. The fastest way to achieve their goals was to let the people who were still on probation. Again, probably not the best way to go about it, but certainly the fastest. I presume more cuts and adjustments will be made to office staff & field staff.

Unless I am missing something, you cannot fire a permanent employee without just cause. IMO this takes time to document the failings, and give employee time to improve. Otherwise more debt as those employees sue and recover damages beyond back pay.

 

[Nick87]

What is this compulsion to read stuff that you know will pull your trigger...then report it?

...and the upside is that I've completely flummoxed a few of my closest colleagues with Buzz's florid deprecations.

Idk but I learned some new vocabulary today.

 

[rjthehunter]

In the mod’s defense of the doge thread I sent a request for it because I’m just sick of all this shit on a hunting forum. I agree with you it’s very interesting but can someone just go shoot a bear or something

You don't have to participate.

Even if you report it, why would a thread with 1 reply be booted? I've seen some pretty wild comments or threads meant for trolling. My thread was nothing close to wild. It wasn't even controversial, just a "let's see what interesting things you've found".

 

[trackerbacker]

Lets expand on this thought. Why then is DOGE not doing things that are ripe for saving money? Like finally taking the advice of multiple reports over the years and hiring more IRS folks to go after and collect money from those not paying their fair share and cheating? Or NOT continuing the Trump tax cuts the cost of which by themselves far blow away any savings from this DOGE chainsaw project?

That's my take.

I get wanting to save money.

I get thinking there is waste that can be cut--but the best ways to make a real difference there are not being utilized and won't be by the current regime.

The old what's good for the goose (since you like analogies) isn't being honored by those who think DOGE is doing some lasting improvement. There are ways to save far more money that aren't being considered and won't be.

Never seen a country tax itself to prosperity, innovation...

Heck. Apple today just announced 4 or 500 billion over the next 4 years of investments.

They didn't announce that 4 years ago, for 4 years. They did that today. Why, why do you think this set of 4 years, not the last set? What'd they do the 4 years before that? Bring money back again. Hmm.. why? WHY?

You know what companies do during democrat years? Send beer cans to trannies.

You know what companies do during trump years? Invest in America.

Pick your America.

Or. Ask the CPA. No, tell the CPA why paying more taxes is only better if a select people Do it. Espouse. Like maybe only rich white dudes in business and politics, blacks in sports, and women in fashion and beauty. Right? Let's go more extreme than just certain income, because that won't teach anyone right, let's make it certain income at certain professions based on certain skills colors and sex, then we won't have to hire 69000 irs agents. We only have to hire 1000 if we narrowed it down so precisely who you don't lik.....who doesn't pay enough.

Should fix it. Taxing more. Always does.

Unless I am missing something, you cannot fire a permanent employee without just cause. IMO this takes time to document the failings, and give employee time to improve. Otherwise more debt as those employees sue and recover damages beyond back pay.

Never been a .gov employee, so when they guys here are done responding to musks email, one of them can answer..

But I believe DC is an at-will, though caveats and such may exist.

 

[Gulf of America]

...and the upside is that I've completely flummoxed a few of my closest colleagues with Buzz's florid deprecations.

Even with some Google-fu, I'm not sure if this sentence holds Buzz in a positive or negative light. But it still makes more sense that tracker's syntax.

 

[Nick87]

If you were stuck or broken down in the middle of nowhere, I would gladly help you out. If you had an elk down in a hole and I came across you, I would grab a quarter and help pack it out.

However, this statement of yours is a prime illustration of exactly what is wrong with our country and why our political climate is what it is. we are all on the same team. We are all Americans. Until we can come to grips with that, then the in your face attitude will continue and nothing will ever get better unless it’s your side that is currently winning.

I was pretty young (freshman in HS) for 9/11, but I do remember how much it brought everyone together. Can't say that if it happened tomorrow it would have the same effect as it did then. Might possibly make it worse, if that's possible.

 

[BigHornRam]

Smart of those who filed before a bunch of IRS employees were laid off!

Early bird gets the worm. Second mouse gets the cheese.

 

[trackerbacker]

I was pretty young (freshman in HS) for 9/11, but I do remember how much it brought everyone together. Can't say that if it happened tomorrow it would have the same effect as it did then. Might possibly make it worse, if that's possible.

The closest thing to that was Israel recently, to give you some insight...

And many Americans sided with Palestinians/Hamas, against Israel.

Ponder that.

 

[cgasner1]

You don't have to participate.

Even if you report it, why would a thread with 1 reply be booted? I've seen some pretty wild comments or threads meant for trolling. My thread was nothing close to wild. It wasn't even controversial, just a "let's see what interesting things you've found".

Because it was going to be. Like I said I agree with you and have been following it. We are loosing members that actually contribute hunting stuff to this forum. Come next season I’d rather read about some hunting stories than just listen to the 5-6 guys left argue about things we can’t changr

 

[BigHornRam]

I have followed this thread and tried to find the historical origin of the attitude that many have about "government employees". The Great Depression gave way to make work projects to create employment for those that were struggling. One of those efforts was the Civilian Conservation Corp. My father-in-law was a Forman on some of those projects above DeBeque CO. They built access trails above Roan Creek. He told me many stories about "make work" projects and all included not only discouraged and required a very slow pace. I have had first hand experience dealing with federal, state and county road programs..all were "the slower the better". One federal project my company furnished all of the aggregator processing equipment on. It started out as a $50M project and somehow became a $500M project.. loaded with in efficiency. We need certain functions to be performed by various government agencies and many are staffed by hard working people BUT the norm in my experience is many are pretty casual in their performance.

You would likely enjoy reading this book.

Forty Years a Forester https://g.co/kgs/JS3tPzd

If I recall correctly, at some point in Ehlers career, he beat a Wobbly over the head with a shovel.

 

[Bullbrl]

Let’s expand on this thought. Why then is DOGE not doing things that are ripe for saving money? Like finally taking the advice of multiple reports over the years and hiring more IRS folks to go after and collect money from those not paying their fair share and cheating? Or NOT continuing the Trump tax cuts the cost of which by themselves far blow away any savings from this DOGE chainsaw project?

Do you honestly think that if we had more tax money coming in the govt would put it to good use? It seems to me the more that comes in the more it goes out. I believe they collected the most taxes in history in 2024, which was better than the previous best in 2023. So how much did those record tax years bring down the debt…..how about we cut the waste first and then work on going after those who don’t pay taxes?

To the point about being a “surgeon” with these cuts. Do you think Microsoft, google, amazon, tesla, etc went through employee by employee before they made their cuts the last couple years? ( I’m sure you all were up in arms about those people losing their jobs). Do you care to let me know how most of their stocks are doing today? Cuts are made, some good people and/or needed positions that were cut will come back after the need is discovered….simple as that. If not, then it must not have been to important. If there is a good manager/director in place they can make the case that the position/person that was cut needs to come back because x, y, and z are imperative to our operation.

For those of you who work in the govt what do you feel is the percentage of cut in your branch/division/segment that should happen?

 

[Bonasababy]

Because it was going to be. Like I said I agree with you and have been following it. We are loosing members that actually contribute hunting stuff to this forum. Come next season I’d rather read about some hunting stories than just listen to the 5-6 guys left argue about things we can’t changr

Got news for ya--when it comes to issues affecting hunting and conservation, the results of the november election insured there will be lots of threads and discussions on it for the next 4 years. The way of handling that here seems to be to let them go if they stick to the thread topic.

To me that suggests members should try to get along and have a decent discussion if they disagree--or just ignore the thread if it bothers you that much. That doesn't mean you have to agree or can't disagree in my way of thinking.

 

[Bonasababy]

Do you honestly think that if we had more tax money coming in the govt would put it to good use? It seems to me the more that comes in the more it goes out. I believe they collected the most taxes in history in 2024, which was better than the previous best in 2023. So how much did those record tax years bring down the debt…..how about we cut the waste first and then work on going after those who don’t pay taxes?

To the point about being a “surgeon” with these cuts. Do you think Microsoft, google, amazon, tesla, etc went through employee by employee before they made their cuts the last couple years? ( I’m sure you all were up in arms about those people losing their jobs). Do you care to let me know how most of their stocks are doing today? Cuts are made, some good people and/or needed positions that were cut will come back after the need is discovered….simple as that. If not, then it must not have been to important. If there is a good manager/director in place they can make the case that the position/person that was cut needs to come back because x, y, and z are imperative to our operation.

For those of you who work in the govt what do you feel is the percentage of cut in your branch/division/segment that should happen?

You tell me. With the makeup of this congress and administration, if they had a lot more money coming would they just spend it?

And lets get one thing understood--it's not about raising taxes. It's about restoring them to their former level. We have cut them and cut them again esp. for the wealthy and corporations so much that gets confused by many. Those tax cuts have done more to increase the rate of growth of the national debt than increased spending has by far.

And because the bulk of spending is tied up in Medicare, Social Security, and Military you can cut entire federal departments and not make as big a dent as you would by restoring to the former tax rates. Not that some focus in both places shouldn't occur--it's just DOGE and this administration are NOT focusing on both sides of the ledger!

I do think some extra revenue should be spent--on more help that pays for itself and then some that has been resisted by congress for years. But absent that if it just went to lowering the deficit some I'd be OK with that too.

And yes my experience with people who worked in large business or corporations is that they absolutely do that with care, strategically cutting back where it does the least harm to their future. That's not what Doge is doing. And I guarantee you no business or corporation will be jumping to find ways to take LESS money in like this administration has planned.

Just one of the many ironies--some say it should be managed like a business, but no business would survive if they managed like DOGE and the current administration is!

Since you asked I suspect many government employees on this board or those close to them will have universal agreement on this. If there's a need to cut back, ask the employees where that should occur. They will have some good ideas in my experience--but no one ever asks them.

The caveat there is to remember that may not play in every department--those who have had staff and budgets cut again and again may not have much if anything left to cut unless the public is prepared to not have the services those agencies provide anymore.