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Relax, Everything is Going to be Okay!

dranrab

Active member
Joined
Dec 20, 2022
Messages
77
Many of you are worried about our public lands in the wake of the workforce downsizing. Like you, I treasure our National Forests, National Parks and BLM lands. My heart truly goes out to those who lost their jobs. It's never easy. It happens regularly in the private sector, but it's rare to see government get smaller, so I understand the worry.

My name is Paul Barnard (spell the screen name backwards.) I live in Metairie LA for now. I just retired after working for the CG for almost 40 years. 20 active-duty and nearly 20 as a civilian. During that time I have partnered with a myriad of government agencies and have had a glimpse into how many operate. Let's just say that they share many similarities with the Coast Guard. I have to do a little drift to set the stage for what follows.

Early in my active duty career, it was normal for 2 of us to hop on a small boat and patrol 20-30 miles offshore. Our small boats back then didn't even have radar or GPS. Service wide, there were no major mishaps operating under such conditions. Government agencies tend to become more risk adverse over time. Standards today will find the small boats restricted to 10 miles offshore. The'll have a comprehensive compliment of safety equipment and electronics, and they'll likely have 4 people on board. They'll run 1/3 the SAR cases we did, they write far fewer BUIs, they'll write almost no federal fisheries tickets and they'll make far fewer law enforcement stops. All of this is verifiable. It's not opinion. Twice the people on the boats, less than half the production. I say that to say that agencies can review their SOPs to identify ways to achieve greater efficiency.

Beginning in about 2018 the Coast Guard started falling behind on recruiting. At our operational units, we were down 40%. To this date, we remain down about 25% on qualified personnel even though recruiting is back up to speed. The Coast Guard cut back on patrols and law enforcement activities. Some stations were closed and others had their personnel allowance formally reduced. Toss out the Covid induced spike in recreational boating deaths, and we saw a steady fall in the number of recreational boating deaths. 2023 was the lowest in decades. FWIW my program was Recreational Boating Safety. So despite the fact, that we had fewer people, engaging the public less frequently, deaths on the water went down substantially.

You may be wondering what the hell this has to do with our public lands. Well, there will be some bumps initially, but ultimately any government agency I have ever worked with could easily absorb a 10-20% loss in personnel without a degradation in service to the public. Through smarter and perhaps harder work, the mission will be accomplished. Many agencies spend an inordinate amount of time serving internal rather than external (public) customers. Bureaucratic crap that can and should be done away with. BS mandatory training. Ask and 90% of government employees would happily tell you that there are worthless employees in their unit. The same 90% will be able to tell you the people who have cake jobs in their agencies and they'll tell you that there are units or teams that could be done away with completely. It would be nice if the workforce reduction could have targeted such personnel, but as many of you know, it can be hard to fire even poor performing .gov employees. Unfortunately in order to downsize quickly, it had to be probationary employees who are often some of the most motivated.

Fearing change and fearing the unknown is normal. I have seen several RIFS in my career and have been furloughed. Good people who are good employees will always land on their feet. Don't panic, don't worry. A year or two from now, you'll see that things are back to or better than normal. I don't expect the Refuges, National Forests or National Parks that I visit too be impacted to any significant degree at all.
 
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Questions:

Was the Coast Guard repeatedly the target of evolving privatization schemes?

Were your RIFs/furloughs blanket-ordered by unelected billionaires who had little/no understanding of the mission or impact of the Coast Guard?

Did the good people and good employees who got RIF'd/furloughed get usable documents to seek career opportunities afterward?

We could go on and on, I'm sure you get the point. It's good to want to be optimistic but this is some serious apples to baseballs stuff here.
 
Many of you are worried about our public lands in the wake of the workforce downsizing. Like you, I treasure our National Forests, National Parks and BLM lands. My heart truly goes out to those who lost their jobs. It's never easy. It happens regularly in the private sector, but it's rare to see government get smaller, so I understand the worry.

My name is Paul Barnard (spell the screen name backwards.) I live in Metairie LA for now. I just retired after working for the CG for almost 40 years. 20 active-duty and nearly 20 as a civilian. During that time I have partnered with a myriad of government agencies and have had a glimpse into how many operate. Let's just say that they share many similarities with the Coast Guard. I have to do a little drift to set the stage for what follows.

Early in my active duty career, it was normal for 2 of us to hop on a small boat and patrol 20-30 miles offshore. Our small boats back then didn't even have radar or GPS. Service wide, there were no major mishaps operating under such conditions. Government agencies tend to become more risk adverse over time. Standards today will find the small boats restricted to 10 miles offshore. The'll have a comprehensive compliment of safety equipment and electronics, and they'll likely have 4 people on board. They'll run 1/3 the SAR cases we did, they write far fewer BUIs, they'll write almost no federal fisheries tickets and they'll make far fewer law enforcement stops. All of this is verifiable. It's not opinion. Twice the people on the boats, less than half the production. I say that to say that agencies can review their SOPs to identify ways to achieve greater efficiency.

Beginning in about 2018 the Coast Guard started falling behind on recruiting. At our operational units, we were down 40%. To this date, we remain down about 25% on qualified personnel even though recruiting is back up to speed. The Coast Guard cut back on patrols and law enforcement activities. Some stations were closed and others had their personnel allowance formally reduced. Toss out the Covid induced spike in recreational boating deaths, and we saw a steady fall in the number of recreational boating deaths. 2023 was the lowest in decades. FWIW my program was Recreational Boating Safety. So despite the fact, that we had fewer people, engaging the public less frequently, deaths on the water went down substantially.

You may be wondering what the hell this has to do with our public lands. Well, there will be some bumps initially, but ultimately any government agency I have ever worked with could easily absorb a 10-20% loss in personnel without a degradation in service to the public. Through smarter and perhaps harder work, the mission will be accomplished. Many agencies spend an inordinate amount of time serving internal rather than external (public) customers. Bureaucratic crap that can and should be done away with. BS mandatory training. Ask and 90% of government employees would happily tell you that there are worthless employees in their unit. The same 90% will be able to tell you the people who have cake jobs in their agencies and they'll tell you that there are units or teams that could be done away with completely. It would be nice if the workforce reduction could have targeted such personnel, but as many of you know, it can be hard to fire even poor performing .gov employees. Unfortunately in order to downsize quickly, it had to be probationary employees who are often some of the most motivated.

Fearing change and fearing the unknown is normal. I have seen several RIFS in my career and have been furloughed. Good people who are good employees will always land on their feet. Don't panic, don't worry. A year or two from now, you'll see that things are back to or better than normal. I don't expect the Refuges, National Forests or National Parks that I visit too be impacted to any significant degree at all.
Having spent +- 30 years in Federal service (4 different civilian agencies, Army Reserve, Active Army and Army SOF) I can tell you this ^^^^ is a conservative view of the truth. Other than my time in SOF I can say the Federal government is wholesale riddled with fraud, waste and abuse. The other truth is that in any turnover there will be give and take of what you want......in this case, for those of us who own, enjoy and hunt with firearms, are much more secure in actual Federal respect for the 2nd Amendment.
 
Were your RIFs/furloughs blanket-ordered by unelected billionaires who had little/no understanding of the mission or impact of the Coast Guard?

Interestingly, the executive branch seemingly is work by design, no? Were the same complaints lobbied with HHs, transpo, etc last administration(s)?

I mean, You may not be happy with what it's doing, or the why, but in the entirety of the .gov, id wager 83% employed (minimum WAG) have little to no understanding of their 'mission'....or are even needed...

Or, flippantly, would you like to argue any president/head of dept who Isn't/wasnt a military leader or business owner, has no right to occupy said positions?

Either way, history of success > history of failure, and most .gov are scared of either option, so I'd wager successful .biz guy > successful.gov guy, reductively, no?

Did the good people and good employees who got RIF'd/furloughed get usable documents to seek career opportunities afterward?

-Higher compensation than private sector counterpart
-low output relative to general sector pay and output.

If their compensation is greater than the private sector counterpart, and output beneath the aforementioned, they don't serve a purpose other than leaching public money and could easily be consolidated and expectations raised to actual levels..

Public employees work for the publics good, not for their own. Anything beyond is grift.

Generally, the private sector will figure out who's fit and who isn't, those coming off the pine should start working on their callous', it takes effort in the real world, not just 20 years + highest 3 of mindless drooling.
 
Questions:

Was the Coast Guard repeatedly the target of evolving privatization schemes?

Were your RIFs/furloughs blanket-ordered by unelected billionaires who had little/no understanding of the mission or impact of the Coast Guard?

Did the good people and good employees who got RIF'd/furloughed get usable documents to seek career opportunities afterward?

We could go on and on, I'm sure you get the point. It's good to want to be optimistic but this is some serious apples to baseballs stuff here.
Unelected billionaire? Can you point out any .gov agency heads that are elected?
 
There are ways trim the fat. Letting 19 year olds with checkered criminal history hack into our most secure infrastructure is not it. I have quite a few Republican friends in the .gov sector now that have already flipped their lid on these antics. Another is a plumber that owns his own business and just yesterday remarked that things have already slowed WAY down. He's already shifted from new construction to making house calls again.

Things will be OK for the billionaires, not so much for 100's of thousands of working class folks.
 
Screenshot_20250224_053819_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20250224_053834_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20250224_053857_Chrome.jpg

Just thought some facts about how many federal employees there are by dept, and how many there are today and have been over time was relevant. It certainly doesnt depict what i would have assumed and based on the color of the conversation, not how i guess the posters in the thread would either


Worth mentioning they could fire every single person involved with USFS (USDA, Parent) and not come close to 20% of the USPS service (approx 650k).
 
I have quite a few Republican friends in the .gov sector now that have already flipped their lid on these antics.

Yes, because their .gov jobs are on the line. Finally.

Your plumber, unless his areacode 202 or 771, I'm wagering these .gov layoffs aren't hurting Joe the plumber so far down the line microeconomically that it's hit him first before banks and institutional instruments, trad.fi/de.fi, lumber futures..

.
There are ways trim the fat. Letting 19 year olds with checkered criminal history hack into our most secure infrastructure is not it.

Well, for at least the past 100 years, it's largely been college degreed 60+ year olds giving the country away.

Doesn't seem like 19 year olds with a pulse on the real world could do any worse.

Worth mentioning they could fire every single person involved with USFS (USDA, Parent) and not come close to 20% of the USPS service (approx 650k).
Worth mentioning you could get rid of both, but for a few sys. Admins to check, fwd, cc/bcc some emails and make sure the kbps stay up and not down, and largely answer the phone to say....


Yup....

1000010714.jpg

Nature's open.


Nature will productively stay natural (what we all want. Right?), and junk mail will productively not have a means of distribution.

Problem solved, money saved, nature being nature, bum's'll have to get a job though...

Unless...nature NEEDS help being nature....QuietTalk™

Er......left out a hashtag or something I'm sure.
 
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Yes, because their .gov jobs are on the line. Finally.

You're plumber, unless his areacode 202 or 771, I'm wagering these .gov layoffs aren't hurting Joe the plumber so far down the line microeconomically that it's hit him first before banks and institutional instruments, trad.fi/de.fi, lumber futures..

.


Well, for at least the past 100 years, it's largely been college degreed 60+ year olds giving the country away.

Doesn't seem like 19 year olds with a pulse on the real world could do any worse.


Worth mentioning you could get rid of both, but for a few sys. Admins to check, fwd, cc/bcc some emails and make sure the kbps stay up and not down, and largely answer the phone to say....


Yup....

View attachment 361825

Nature's open.


Nature will productively stay natural (what we all want. Right?), and junk mail will productively not have a means of distribution.

Problem solved, money saved, nature being nature, bum's'll have to get a job though...

Unless...nature NEEDS help being nature....QuietTalk™

Er......left out a hashtag or something I'm sure.
How old are you, just curious?
 
Yes, because their .gov jobs are on the line. Finally.

You're plumber, unless his areacode 202 or 771, I'm wagering these .gov layoffs aren't hurting Joe the plumber so far down the line microeconomically that it's hit him first before banks and institutional instruments, trad.fi/de.fi, lumber futures..

.


Well, for at least the past 100 years, it's largely been college degreed 60+ year olds giving the country away.

Doesn't seem like 19 year olds with a pulse on the real world could do any worse.


Worth mentioning you could get rid of both, but for a few sys. Admins to check, fwd, cc/bcc some emails and make sure the kbps stay up and not down, and largely answer the phone to say....


Yup....

View attachment 361825

Nature's open.


Nature will productively stay natural (what we all want. Right?), and junk mail will productively not have a means of distribution.

Problem solved, money saved, nature being nature, bum's'll have to get a job though...

Unless...nature NEEDS help being nature....QuietTalk™

Er......left out a hashtag or something I'm sure.
Yeah, nature needs quite a bit of help being nature. Especially in the face of the all consuming market. Read a freaking book on the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.
 
There are ways trim the fat. Letting 19 year olds with checkered criminal history hack into our most secure infrastructure is not it. I have quite a few Republican friends in the .gov sector now that have already flipped their lid on these antics. Another is a plumber that owns his own business and just yesterday remarked that things have already slowed WAY down. He's already shifted from new construction to making house calls again.

Things will be OK for the billionaires, not so much for 100's of thousands of working class folks.
The argument about Musk's team having access is as BS as the "unelected" argument. They have appropriate clearances just as the totally trustworthy GS-5's and GS-7's in the agencies they are auditing do.
 
Yeah, federally managed public lands aren't instrumental to the success of the NAM at all....

You bring up an interesting point, I have wrestled with that as well- a state owned resource that largely relies upon a federally owned resource for its existence.

Anyway, not what this thread is about. I don’t want to distract from @dranrab here, his personal experience provides an important counterpoint that I think is helpful for us all to consider.
 
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Nature's open.


Nature will productively stay natural (what we all want. Right?),
Do you still live in Iowa? Look out your window, where we’ve let nature, nature. it’s full of emerald ash borers, Japanese knotweed, and garlic mustard. The creeks are a straight canal lined with flood mitigation dikes and our “prairies”have more miles of tile then all of the roads in the state combined. Our drinking water wells have nitrates so high that our cancer rate is #1 in the world. Our biggest state forest doesn’t have a tree older than 75 years. But let’s let nature, nature.

And has far as .gov employees making more than their private counterparts for half the work, thanks for making me spit my coffee out laughing so hard.
 
You bring up an interesting point, I have wrestled with that as well- a state owned resource that largely relies upon a federally owned resource for its existence.

Anyway, not what this thread is about. I don’t want to distract from @dranrab here, his personal experience provides an important counterpoint that I think is helpful for us all to consider.
Sure would be neat if youd start your own thread about it.
 
Those of us who worked for the Forest Service know that the ones who were a drain on tax dollars were the ones who were “retired in place.” I’m talking about the 55 year old engine captains that don’t PT with their crew, try to develop their subordinates, or seek responsibility when they respond to fires as one example. These people were not probationary employees and are not the ones who got axed. But the real waste is in the contracts. I’m talking about aircraft that are paid tens of thousands of dollars per day to sit on the tarmac when there’s not a fire, and millions of dollars to fly on fires even when they’re not being particularly effective. I can also remember a story from my old FMO about how he was on an incident management team with a fire chief from the Seattle area. That fire chief apparently took home over $40,000 after every 2 week fire assignment. A large 2 week fire check for a federal employee will be around $5000 after taxes. Contract crews cost more than hotshot crews while providing significantly less work and expertise. Speaking of contracts, Elon’s companies bring in $8 MILLION DOLLARS PER DAY! That information alone should be enough to make you wonder how the f— he is the one overseeing this.
 
The impact stories tell of real consequences, not merely "BS" strategies to garner public support. That is a red herring in the "efficiency" discussion.
Untold nonprofit support organizations contribute significantly to functioning of national parks and USFS lands, yet NPS and USFS still face challenges and backlogs. 'Don't think it's because of too many workers.
I wonder how many here who obviously hold disdain for the government have actually visited with a ranger in a national park, enjoyed Glacier or Yellowstone Parks to become aware of the operational challenges, or have attempted to backpack up a downed timber clogged trail in the Bob Marshall Wilderness or up a trail in Wyoming off the Thorofare. The challenges faced by these agencies are real.

Anecdotal accounts of personal employment experiences performing unnecessary work or just idly looking for something to do while taking a regular government paycheck say more about the person than the agency.
 
@sapperJ24

Responding here because buzz is protected and gets his own safe space (while being allowed to derail anyone else's thread and has piles of times).

Regardless...

I understand it's difficult or even impossible to fire employees that have been working a gov job for a long time. The fastest way to achieve their goals was to let the people who were still on probation. Again, probably not the best way to go about it, but certainly the fastest. I presume more cuts and adjustments will be made to office staff & field staff.
 
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