Reducing the Friction Between Working Landowners and Elk

[brocksw]

Do we know where the majority of the problem is in terms of economic damage? Is it cut and bailed hay? Standing Alf alfa?

 

[Dakotakid]

I know the corn gets hammered.
Speaking about region 4,6,7 and 5.

 

[Schaaf]

Were these issues apparent back in 2004? In talking to people it seems these issues are worse now than in 2004.

I wonder how much of our problems are being exacerbated by the length of our seasons and the increase in technology over the last 15 years that is dispersing hunters all across the accessible ground and pushing elk to the inaccessible ground the longer the season lasts.

Seems as though our liberal season structure needs to be addressed in any meaningful discussion about the future of elk management.

 

[timmy]

Less pressure on public would help. That would be a tough pill for a lot of people to swallow.

 

[TheJason]

Were these issues apparent back in 2004? In talking to people it seems these issues are worse now than in 2004.

Yes, they were there in 2004, but probably not to the current extreme. Lots of land ownership changes and demographic changes in that time.

In the late 90s there were a number of permit only late antlerless hunts available. As the number of districts with these grew, the decision was ultimately made to abolish all of these as it was perceived the antlerless late hunts were catering to ranches that were outfitted for bull harvest during the regular season.

I think it was about 2003 or 04 when the agency took a stance of “solve your population issues during the five week season” and did away with nearly all of the late season permit hunts. Later hunts were then granted as damage hunts and the damage hunt rosters became a thing. To be fair, there were and are areas who’ve used the five week season in very good faith. Even Galts used to throw open the gates the last few days of the season for the public to try and hammer the cows.

Ultimately, because of the people/neighbor issues that have been discussed, the damage hunts proved to be ineffective at reducing elk damage/distribution issues and the shoulder season idea came about.

 

[SAJ-99]

Less pressure on public would help. That would be a tough pill for a lot of people to swallow.

I'm not sure that would help all that much. They choose that land because it has better feed and cover. See Big fin's #5. Sure you might get less pressure, but that isn't going to keep them off of the farmer's pivot or hay bales.

 

[TheJason]

I'm not sure that would help all that much. They choose that land because it has better feed and cover. See Big fin's #5. Sure you might get less pressure, but that isn't going to keep them off of the farmer's pivot or hay bales.

Some of it is feed, some of it is security. When the elk were crushing the corn fields near the mouth of the Big Horn it was in the middle of the night and they’d head back to the Pine Hills to bed. There are other places they just camp out 24/7 because of the security, like some of the wide open hills north of WSS.

 

[timmy]

I'm not sure that would help all that much. They choose that land because it has better feed and cover. See Big fin's #5. Sure you might get less pressure, but that isn't going to keep them off of the farmer's pivot or hay bales.

This shows how complex the problem is. There are a lot of instances you are correct, however elk seek sanctuary and a pumpkin patch of hunters can push them right onto private sanctuaries where no elk will be harvested.

 

[mtmuley]

This shows how complex the problem is. There are a lot of instances you are correct, however elk seek sanctuary and a pumpkin patch of hunters can push them right onto private sanctuaries where no elk will be harvested.

Exactly why the issue needs to be addressed area by area and not by a broad set of rules and regulations. What works in one place might be bad in another. mtmuley

 

[shoots-straight]

Were these issues apparent back in 2004? In talking to people it seems these issues are worse now than in 2004.

I wonder how much of our problems are being exacerbated by the length of our seasons and the increase in technology over the last 15 years that is dispersing hunters all across the accessible ground and pushing elk to the inaccessible ground the longer the season lasts.

Seems as though our liberal season structure needs to be addressed in any meaningful discussion about the future of elk management.

Our problems hit a high in 2004 and thats when the Elk slaughter in the Root took place. Our issues are better now. Constant attention is required. You know it would be nice to have leases that are planted in crops that elk and deer hit that might be a buffer to landowners. Just a thought. Might be cheaper than paying crop damage.

BTW as far as I know HD 270 in the Root, is the only HD using page 55 to manage elk numbers.

 

[Buffs35]

You don't want elk in your fields, build a taller fence.

 

[shoots-straight]

You don't want elk in your fields, build a taller fence.

There's problems with this too. It cuts off migratory routes.

 

[mtmuley]

I hesitate to use the Root as an example. We have herds here that in order to manage them, they all need to be removed. mtmuley

 

[sacountry]

It all boils down to two things, in my humble opinion....One, money.... which only really works with those trying to make a living off their land, but that IS who we need to help. Two, is putting these ideas into action in Helena. I want to wait to see what the Elk Council produces, but we may need a loud and consistent voice on Helena to go on the OFFENSIVE.

 

[shoots-straight]

I hesitate to use the Root as an example. We have herds here that in order to manage them, they all need to be removed. mtmuley

In the farm land Hd 262 otherwise, were have things gotten worse sense those dark days of slaughter occurred?

 

[shoots-straight]

What has amazed me about large scale landowner purchasers is the fact that they might put forth a lot of effort to make the lands productive again for wildlife, after years of livestock abuse, then after large quantities of wildlife show up they begin to bitch about too many elk and deer. What did they think was going to happen?

 

[mtmuley]

In the farm land Hd 262 otherwise, were have things gotten worse sense those dark days of slaughter occurred?

The herds in 262 are what I was referring to. Most of the large scale landowners in the Root aren't on the riverbottom. Some own both. The Root is a unique situation. FWIW, I can kill elk on FS here easily. mtmuley

 

[shoots-straight]

The herds in 262 are what I was referring to. Most of the large scale landowners in the Root aren't on the riverbottom. Some own both. The Root is a unique situation. FWIW, I can kill elk on FS here easily. mtmuley

Ok, I guess you'll need to draw me a picture then. You said that management in the Root means you have to kill all the Elk, but then say it's easy to kill elk in the Root. Confused!

It's unique because we have already dealt with all these things that have come up. Elk Management, changes every year, just as Elk hunting does.

 

[TheJason]

Exactly why the issue needs to be addressed area by area and not by a broad set of rules and regulations. What works in one place might be bad in another. mtmuley

There certainly need to be more tools in the toolbox. In addition, inconsistencies like ignoring page 55 of the EMP simply can’t happen.

 

[mtmuley]

Ok, I guess you'll need to draw me a picture then. You said that management in the Root means you have to kill all the Elk, but then say it's easy to kill elk in the Root. Confused!

It's unique because we have already dealt with all these things that have come up. Elk Management, changes every year, just as Elk hunting does.

Shoots, I am talking about the elk in 262 as a separate population than the rest of the Valley. These elk are not indicative of the elk numbers here. There are generations of elk born on the Valley floor. They aren't leaving. Not migrating. Ours is a unique situation. mtmuley