Recreational Shooting - Ethics question

[wyoelkfan15]

Bear with me, I know this is a long post. I wanted to get folks opinions on an access restriction issue I encountered today on State Trust lands in northeast Wyoming. I've grown up in Wyoming, and with few exceptions (state owned gravel pits, habitat or wildlife research areas, etc.), have never had an issue shooting or recreating on state or federally owned lands in any way, until today.

Several friends and I decided to go shoot some skeet today on a piece of state land southeast of Sheridan, WY. Understand around Sheridan, there is VERY limited public land access, there are some big acreages of state land, but most of them are locked up by private ownership. The access area we went to is one of only several pieces of public property accessible by the public in a close proximity to Sheridan. There is a trail head people use for horseback riding/hiking/hunting that heads off south east from the parking area. To the northeast of the parking lot is a perfect location for recreational shooting, being a slight inclined hill leading up to a sharp ridgeline providing a perfect backstop for any ricochet bullets or shot. Perfect, so we thought!

We got setup and had put several boxes of shells downrange when a sheriffs deputy pulled up. The deputy informed us we couldn't shoot on this piece of public property and would need to vacate promptly. Apparently, this state land piece has an ordinance in place to restrict recreational shooting (see attached). Along with the Ordinance literature are several letters written in to the State Land board urging the restriction to be put in place. There are several points I would like Hunt Talk's opinions on.

- Public resource = equal opportunity. While this area does provide some great access opportunity for hikers and horseback riding, it is apparent through the attached letters that those users are valued over that of recreational shooters. The irony is that the area allows hunting to occur both in archery and rifle season. How do we as sportsmen and women continue to encourage responsible use for everyone on our public lands?

- Legislation. Obviously this ordinance was railroaded through the state land board commission. There is not a single letter attached with the ordinance in support of recreational shooting. This area houses some very wealthy individuals but the closest houses to the area we were shooting are almost a half mile away and completely out of any stray bullet line of fire. How can we prevent these types of actions in the future? Can this be overturned?

- Shooting on public lands. I am sure there are others that have seen areas overused for recreational shooting. Every time I pull up to a public piece and see shot shells, trash, targets just littered on the landscape I get ticked off just as much as anyone else. How do we combat this littering associated with recreational shooting? Do we permit shooting on public lands?

- Education. It is obvious from the public comments attached that there were some very irresponsible shooters using this area. How do we educate folks about the consequences of their actions and how they can effect the public as a whole through their negligence?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pjnvNthTs08I8HFFmVvPjvIzBVEqJvyV/view

I think the thing that ticks me off most about this is the fact that I have never experienced a shooting restriction like this on State owned lands in Wyoming. If anything it illustrates the magnitude of the issues we encounter with access issues on public lands owned by the states.

 

[Pucky Freak]

- Public resource = equal opportunity. While this area does provide some great access opportunity for hikers and horseback riding, it is apparent through the attached letters that those users are valued over that of recreational shooters. The irony is that the area allows hunting to occur both in archery and rifle season. How do we as sportsmen and women continue to encourage responsible use for everyone on our public lands?

I disagree. Public hunting opportunities are paid for by hunting license dollars. Recreational shooters do not contribute monetarily to the lands used for these opportunities, and they are not allowed to shoot there. This is as it should be.

 

[wyoelkfan15]

I disagree. Public hunting opportunities are paid for by hunting license dollars. Recreational shooters do not contribute monetarily to the lands used for these opportunities, and they are not allowed to shoot there. This is as it should be.

Yeah, that's not true. Pittsman Robertson dollars come from sales of hunting and fishing equipment including firearms and ammo.

 

[MJE2083]

Being from the east this issue is somewhat foreign to me. We aren't allowed to target shoot on virtually any public lands unless it's at a range set up for that specific purpose.

Our State Gamelands have several ranges that allow those with a hunting license (or other paid permit) to use the range. The regulations are also very strict. Ranges get shutdown periodically due to abuse and waste. I could see the day when these ranges cease to exist.

 

[LaSportsman]

Can't shoot recreationally on state land in AZ. Can hunt most state land. I see no issue restricting a section if it's small and has lots of hikers.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

When was the last time a group of hikes/bikes/dog walkers/etc. let a refrigerator riddled with bullet holes next to a parking lot. Sorry, target shooting shouldn't be allowed on any piece of public land, that privileged was lost a while ago. I was on the fence about this for a long time, but the amount of shooting trash all over the west is ridiculous.

Join a rod/gun club
http://scsarange.org/wordpress/scsa-membership/

 

[jeremys4]

target shooters in my opinion leave all the spent hulls plus what ever garbage they brought to shoot their ar’s. I spend hours raking up the mess they leave. I feel that ture sportsman know it’s a privilege to use the land. Target shooting in my area tarnishes the sportsman.

 

[elkduds]

Safety. The same idiots that leave all that trash also don't consider backstops, trajectory, fire danger, other users, even though you did. Scofflaws cost you and other public land owners that access, and will continue to do so. Same pinheads that cause offroad area closures by violating rules there. Even in the Cowboy State.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Yeah, that's not true. Pittsman Robertson dollars come from sales of hunting and fishing equipment including firearms and ammo.

Sorry, Pittsman Robertson dollars are for habitat restoration and species preservation, NOT public land use for recreational shooting.

Pittman–Robertson Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Every public gun range I have ever been to is trashed, as are public hunting areas where people illegally do a lot of recreational shooting. It would be great if everyone picked up after themselves and was an ethical land user, but sadly this just isn't the case.

The recreational shooting I do is mostly on private land. If I didn't behave myself I would lose the privilege to shoot at those places.

 

[wyoelkfan15]

Definitely see this point. Whenever I shoot on public land I make sure to pick up as much as I can to leave the area intact. I don't think it is as simple as blaming a single group of users though. There are plenty of spots on BLM in Wyoming that recreational shooters use that are unblemished by the use.

 

[375H&H]

There are TONS of places around Sheridan to recreationally shoot on public land. Find another one and go there. I was at one within 20 minutes of Sheridan just within the last week and I can think of about 5 off the top of my head just as close.

On another note, care to meet up sometime? I have been trying to find a hunt talker in the Sheridan area but to no avail.

 

[PrairieHunter]

When was the last time a group of hikes/bikes/dog walkers/etc. let a refrigerator riddled with bullet holes next to a parking lot. Sorry, target shooting shouldn't be allowed on any piece of public land, that privileged was lost a while ago. I was on the fence about this for a long time, but the amount of shooting trash all over the west is ridiculous.

Join a rod/gun club
http://scsarange.org/wordpress/scsa-membership/

Yep. The BLM shooting range South of Laramie has a nice collection of furniture, appliances, garbage, beer cans, etc.... And lots of off roading. Pretty much abused in every way. I pretty much only shoot on public land but if it was outlawed I'd be OK with it as I have also seen the abuse.

But for some reason the animals don't mind the trash on that piece. On two occasions during the long antelope season I was out shooting targets at 500 yards and there were does within 200, and I had a tag in my pocket.

But I hate to see the abuse which takes place on public land.

As far as the OP, if skeet is referring to clay pigeons then that should not be allowed as it's also littering. Shooting a target and taking the target home is one thing, shooting clay pigeons is not much different than bottles, both leave a shattered mess that nobody cleans up.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I don't think it is as simple as blaming a single group of users though.

Which recreational users as a group leaves the biggest messes: hunters, backpackers, horseback riders, or recreational shooters? Hunters come in second in my observation, but it's a distance second. While there are many good apples among the recreational shooter bunch, too many rotten ones have spoiled the bunch. Many do not have an appreciation for the land and the things living on and in it. It's too easy to just pull off the road, make a big mess, and drive off. In IA recreational shooting is illegal on any public land open to hunting. This is a trend I hope to see expanded in the few remaining states where it is still allowed.

 

[1976]

8 million dollars of the Pittman Robertson Act are used for enhancing hunter ed programs and also the construction and remodeling projects of public shooting ranges across the US. Most of the money for ranges is on a 75% provided by the PRA and the remaining 25% provided locally. Rinella had a podcast with the NSSF that was very informational, especially the breakdown on what hunters provide versus recreational and shooting sports participants provide to the funds. Always knew the shooting sports provided the higher percentage but didn't realize it was close to 80 percent.

 

[wyoelkfan15]

There are TONS of places around Sheridan to recreationally shoot on public land. Find another one and go there. I was at one within 20 minutes of Sheridan just within the last week and I can think of about 5 off the top of my head just as close.

On another note, care to meet up sometime? I have been trying to find a hunt talker in the Sheridan area but to no avail.

Turkey season opens next week, you got a tag? P.M. me if you want.

I remember that chunk of land south of Laramie going to college was ridiculous. One time we went out there and someone from WyoTech had decided they didn't need an ENTIRE class' worth of laptop computers, took them out and used them as target practice. By no means am I trying to condone this type of action.

I think the main point I was trying to make with the initial post was the restriction of use on public land. This exact same thing could be applied to hunting on that piece of property.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

The thing I noticed in this thread is there is a lot of trash on the public land that is supposed to be used by everyone. You also get this behavior in camping sites and hiking trails and trail heads. It appears in some of these post that folks want to "Judge" the group instead of the few. For people that don't have a bunch of money, public use is all they have and it is a shame that some inconsiderate people trash the area and ruin it for others. However, I think that we all have a responsibility to clean up the area when we find it trashed as well as clean after ourselves. Before the naysayers beat me up, yes I and my kids, have cleaned up other peoples trash after shooting, camping, hiking and before leaving public areas. It is sad that we want to limit people from using land that we all own. Seems society is always shot gunning the issues instead of attacking the heart of the problem. Just my 2 cents worth and I don't intend to offend...

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Which recreational users as a group leaves the biggest messes: hunters, backpackers, horseback riders, or recreational shooters? Hunters come in second in my observation, but it's a distance second. While there are many good apples among the recreational shooter bunch, too many rotten ones have spoiled the bunch. Many do not have an appreciation for the land and the things living on and in it. It's too easy to just pull off the road, make a big mess, and drive off. In IA recreational shooting is illegal on any public land open to hunting. This is a trend I hope to see expanded in the few remaining states where it is still allowed.

The rec shooter is a distant second to squatters. At least down the road from my house, there is a few different groups of people that come in their Van's and by Van's I mean their house a few times a year and trash a great recreational area a few miles from my house. And I mean freaking trash it until someone calls the cops and they get booted for overstaying the 14 day limit. Side note I've talked with some of these squatters over the years and even enjoyed a beer or two with some of them. They are all shall we say EXTREMELY progressive politically. Definitely green new deal supporters. I just wanna give them a shout out for being so environmentally savvy.

As for the rec shooter part mentioned. I understand it's a difficult situation for the responsible shooters out there. I feel like the ones who trash a place aren't gonna follow laws anyways and will just shoot wherever they want when they want regardless all while leaving a mess behind them. So the only people being punished are the responsible recreational area users. Crappy deal with no real solution for the responsible people except to join a rod and gun club and keep setting a good example for those around us.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

To be clear so nobody freaks out! I'm not blaming one group of people over another for trashing places. The above comment is just a reoccurring issue I deal with by my house year after year I used as an example.

 

[Wyo7]

I think the thing that ticks me off most about this is the fact that I have never experienced a shooting restriction like this on State owned lands in Wyoming. If anything it illustrates the magnitude of the issues we encounter with access issues on public lands owned by the states.

There is a bunch of extra restrictions on state lands in Wyoming. You also can't hunt any agricultural/irrigated parcels that are on state lands. Really cuts down on some good hunting opportunities. If you go to this website http://gis.statelands.wyo.gov/GIS/OSLIGIS/StateLandAccess/ you can look at each individual state trust sections and tell if they have public access and then what the closures are on that piece of land such as nonmotorized only, no recreational shooting, no hunting, etc. (I use it with OnXmaps and turn on WY Sections that show range, township, and section numbers). This map has saved me a couple times. Hopefully it helps you out some. Also as a side note, I usually will question a sheriff deputy when it comes to anything public land, they don't know nearly as much as the game wardens in my experience and just do something when a citizen complains. So double check all this stuff to be sure you were or weren't in the wrong. You easily could of been totally legal but someone felt "unsafe" so they're complaining got a sheriff involved when you did nothing wrong. I've seen that a few times myself. Hopefully that link helps you out.

 

[SandyCreek]

The rec shooter is a distant second to squatters. At least down the road from my house, there is a few different groups of people that come in their Van's and by Van's I mean their house a few times a year and trash a great recreational area a few miles from my house. And I mean freaking trash it until someone calls the cops and they get booted for overstaying the 14 day limit. Side note I've talked with some of these squatters over the years and even enjoyed a beer or two with some of them. They are all shall we say EXTREMELY progressive politically. Definitely green new deal supporters. I just wanna give them a shout out for being so environmentally savvy.

As for the rec shooter part mentioned. I understand it's a difficult situation for the responsible shooters out there. I feel like the ones who trash a place aren't gonna follow laws anyways and will just shoot wherever they want when they want regardless all while leaving a mess behind them. So the only people being punished are the responsible recreational area users. Crappy deal with no real solution for the responsible people except to join a rod and gun club and keep setting a good example for those around us.

gotta be all carbon neutral living in my van bra, don't you know your house and central air are poison