Really, Wyoming?

[Elky Welky]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Montana Supreme Court has lost every time in cases regarding “criminal endangerment”

I’m not following your question, can you clarify?

Criminal Endangerment was originally written to stop enviros from spiking trees, but prosecutors now use it in MT for any situation where someone could get hurt. The most common charge for felony criminal endangerment is a dui with kids in the car.

 

[Nick87]

I dont know. Read all of my responses and you’d see my position on it. The evidence that keeps being brought forth however is leaning toward even if they weren’t present, they don’t condemn the actions of Cody “douche flute Roger’s.

I'm not sticking up for the place at all. Just don't know the facts about the owners I guess. Maybe the owners aren't even local? I'd hate to see a couple bad employees or patrons have such a negative impact on someone's livelihood. My guess is that's not the case, but who knows the situation. Doesn't matter damage is done. As a business owner I'd figured you to think about that's little differently?

 

[BuzzH]

I'm not sticking up for the place at all. Just don't know the facts about the owners I guess. Maybe the owners aren't even local? I'd hate to see a couple bad employees or patrons have such a negative impact on someone's livelihood. My guess is that's not the case, but who knows the situation. Doesn't matter damage is done. As a business owner I'd figured you to think about that's little differently?

Sometimes what you don't say, speaks louder than what you do.

The owner is local and IMO, should hire a PR person, yesterday.

 

[MTLabrador]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Montana Supreme Court has lost every time in cases regarding “criminal endangerment”……

Criminal endangerment in Montana gets charged and convicted All. The. Time.

Typically used for someone running from law enforcement in a pursuit, driving wrong way on the interstate while drunk, etc. But it does get used for idiots firing off a weapon in someone’s general direction as well as other things from time to time. It’s a great law to have on the books.

I don’t think it applies in this case. Animal cruelty clearly does.

 

[MTLabrador]

I’m not following your question, can you clarify?

Criminal Endangerment was originally written to stop enviros from spiking trees, but prosecutors now use it in MT for any situation where someone could get hurt. The most common charge for felony criminal endangerment is a dui with kids in the car.

There’s a separate criminal child endangerment that’s specific to DUI with kids in the car, but yes, it’s extremely useful.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I'm not sticking up for the place at all. Just don't know the facts about the owners I guess. Maybe the owners aren't even local? I'd hate to see a couple bad employees or patrons have such a negative impact on someone's livelihood. My guess is that's not the case, but who knows the situation. Doesn't matter damage is done. As a business owner I'd figured you to think about that's little differently?

I was wondering why they haven't made a statement and thought maybe they just went and got a lawyer and that lawyer told them to just be quiet.

 

[Nick87]

The owner is local

Well that answers that question. Sucks for anybody else working their too who depended on the job, who might not have had anything to do with it. That was my point. Our tire guy at work went off the road and killed a county sheriffs deputy last week. (Single mom and veteran with 3 kids, absolutely devastating). The local community has pretty much shunned that tire business over it. (Driver of the truck was on drugs allegedly) all the other guys who didn't kill anyone or do drugs at that company are now pretty much out of a job. That's what made me think of that circumatance.

 

[Elky Welky]

Criminal endangerment in Montana gets charged and convicted All. The. Time.

Typically used for someone running from law enforcement in a pursuit, driving wrong way on the interstate while drunk, etc. But it does get used for idiots firing off a weapon in someone’s general direction as well as other things from time to time. It’s a great law to have on the books.

I don’t think it applies in this case. Animal cruelty clearly does.

I (as a criminal defense attorney) hate it because of how much of a catch all it has become and I know a lot of lazy prosecutors that lean too much on it. But here, I think it’s arguable that bringing an angry wild predator with teeth used to take down elk into a small bar potentially “endangered” everyone in the bar.

 

[MTLabrador]

I (as a criminal defense attorney) hate it because of how much of a catch all it has become and I know a lot of lazy prosecutors that lean too much on it. But here, I think it’s arguable that bringing an angry wild predator with teeth used to take down elk into a small bar potentially “endangered” everyone in the bar.

We play for opposing teams, but I agree.

 

[BuzzH]

Well that answers that question. Sucks for anybody else working their too who depended on the job, who might not have had anything to do with it. That was my point. Our tire guy at work went off the road and killed a county sheriffs deputy last week. (Single mom and veteran with 3 kids, absolutely devastating). The local community has pretty much shunned that tire business over it. (Driver of the truck was on drugs allegedly) all the other guys who didn't kill anyone or do drugs at that company are now pretty much out of a job. That's what made me think of that circumatance.

Couple things there, if you're going to run a business, you should screen your employees and if they're operating a vehicle, mandatory drug/alcohol testing.

A company/business is responsible for their employees, just the way it works.

When people stop thinking about how their actions could impact others, that's what you get. Unfortunate, but again, just the way it works.

 

[Nick87]

Couple things there, if you're going to run a business, you should screen your employees and if they're operating a vehicle, mandatory drug/alcohol testing.

A company/business is responsible for their employees, just the way it works.

When people stop thinking about how their actions could impact others, that's what you get. Unfortunate, but again, just the way it works.

I agree.

Plenty of people get around drug screenings also just the way it works.
Edit-unless your pulling hair samples. Ime.

 

[Wildabeest]

Sometimes what you don't say, speaks louder than what you do.

You should try it sometime

 

[BuzzH]

I agree.

Plenty of people get around drug screenings also just the way it works.

Like I said, when people stop thinking about their actions and how they could impact others, the result is predictable.

 

[Elky Welky]

We play for opposing teams, but I agree.

Nah. It’s all the same team. My ethical obligation (per the Montana rules of professional conduct) is to “always pursue the truth.” And I take that seriously. I guide my clients through the system and protect their rights against the government, but I don’t defend what they did. And if they get convicted but everything was done by the book, I sleep just fine.

If I was asked to defend this guy who abused a wolf, however, I’d probably turn the case down. Even I have my limits.

 

[WesternWyoming]

It's certainly not looking good and starting to look like the bar is more involved than I thought. I would guess for Cody to pull a stunt like that, he had to feel comfortable it would be approved of.

I think if I were the owner, I would probably be making a statement about right now letting everyone know I had nothing to do with the wolf. I would also make it a point to let the public know there's at least 2 people that are never going to be in my bar again. Most likely, if any of my employees condoned that nonsense, they would be getting a road map and their last pay check.

Just FYI, Cody lives across the street from the bar. So yeah, a comfortable relationship I guess.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

I’m not following your question, can you clarify?

Criminal Endangerment was originally written to stop enviros from spiking trees, but prosecutors now use it in MT for any situation where someone could get hurt. The most common charge for felony criminal endangerment is a dui with kids in the car.

Someone close to me got the charge, ended up dropping it if he plead to something else. All the while sitting in jail. Everyone that’s taken CE to the box, won.

 

[cgasner1]

Just FYI, Cody lives across the street from the bar. So yeah, a comfortable relationship I guess.

I lived in Wyoming for about 9 months once. Everyone lives across the street from a bar

 

[Dubz337]

Like I said, when people stop thinking about their actions and how they could impact others, the result is predictable.

 

[NR_Hunter]

I bet Cody Roberts has never taped a sheep’s mouth shut....

One thing that makes me anxious about this whole thing, and I know I'm thinking too hard on it, is pleasure that seems to be derived from the sadism. It seems once something is deemed as "vermin" people use it to unleash and to justify all their sadistic desires that they've been keeping just below the surface. The only thing keeping it below the surface were social norms and loss of freedom (laws.) How easily could a person who thinks another human being is "vermin" do this to people instead of wolf?

In America, we think we live outside history, but we truly do not. I gotta think the same person who thinks torturing a wolf is funny is the same personality type that would have loved being a Waffen-SS prison guard.

Anyways, just my observation on human nature on this whole ordeal. Honestly, I'm so disgusted by this I don't care if wolves go back on the ESA, and consequences for big game hunting be damned. Hate me for it you want, but I truly don't care.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I bet Cody Roberts has never taped a sheep’s mouth shut....

One thing that makes me anxious about this whole thing, and I know I'm thinking too hard on it, is pleasure that seems to be derived from the sadism. It seems once something is deemed as "vermin" people use it to unleash and to justify all their sadistic desires that they've been keeping just below the surface. The only thing keeping it below the surface were social norms and loss of freedom (laws.) How easily could a person who thinks another human being is "vermin" do this to people instead of wolf?

In America, we think we live outside history, but we truly do not. I gotta think the same person who thinks torturing a wolf is funny is the same personality type that would have loved being a Waffen-SS prison guard.

Anyways, just my observation on human nature on this whole ordeal. Honestly, I'm so disgusted by this I don't care if wolves go back on the ESA, and consequences for big game hunting be damned. Hate me for it you want, but I truly don't care.

Think about how people talk about someone that thinks differently than them. Covid remains eye opening for how fast people will tribalize.

Torturing animals is sick - I can't imagine the kind of personality that does this and then gets a rush out of showing it off.

It'd probably be a disaster even for wolves to go back on the ESA - people will be much more resistant to having them in new places if there are no available management practices.