Reagan airport crash 1/29/25

[wannabee]

I don't have the fact sheet in front of me, but I think this is the worst airline tragedy since 9/11. Very sad to see.

 

[kodiakisland]

Maybe I heard wrong but the training is supposed to be in dark in a congested air area. I likely shouldn’t have commented.

If you are expected to fly this exact corridor for actual missions then it's appropriate to fly it for training.

 

[ismith]

Maybe I heard wrong but the training is supposed to be in dark in a congested air area. I likely shouldn’t have commented.

I have no idea why any army helicopter crew would try to log NVG time in a class B airspace, I have no doubt that the unit has done that many, many times without issues. Nothing wrong with asking a question.

 

[ismith]

If you are expected to fly this exact corridor for actual missions then it's appropriate to fly it for training.

This isn't wrong; however, safety is always a priority. Most aviation incidents are not due to one oversight, but rather compounding issues that lead to disaster.

 

[ismith]

I don't have the fact sheet in front of me, but I think this is the worst airline tragedy since 9/11. Very sad to see.

Worst American airline tragedy, the recent crash in South Korea was worse fatality wise.

 

[kodiakisland]

This isn't wrong; however, safety is always a priority. Most aviation incidents are not due to one oversight, but rather compounding issues that lead to disaster.

Yeah, safety is a priority and that's why they train the mission.
I know nothing about military aviation as my 24yrs Army time were on the ground. Lot's of questions to be answered about what they were doing and whether that's the best practice. I'm sure some changes will be made.

 

[seeth07]

You know, it just boggles my mind the amount of social media and coverage of this event targeting "who to blame" and "how could this happen".

The amount of air traffic in this nation is mind boggling and the record of safety is something that should be acknowledged at a time like this. This was a super tiny accident compared to the air travel records of safety and why can't we just acknowledge that it was just that.

Yesterday 117 people died in car accidents. 29 of them by a drunk driver.

 

[ismith]

Yeah, safety is a priority and that's why they train the mission.
I know nothing about military aviation as my 24yrs Army time were on the ground. Lot's of questions to be answered about what they were doing and whether that's the best practice. I'm sure some changes will be made.

The primary mission of this particular army aviation unit is the evacuation of congress on very short notice, so it is necessary that they are proficient in NVG operation in that airspace. There is no question that mistakes were made, however, and people usually die when that happens.

 

[tim629]

I hate how they continually try to pin this on the controller. It's not his job to hand hold pilots. The UH-60 reported traffic in sight and requested visual separation. The controller even came back for a confirmation with the UH60 after the CA alarm sounds.

I'm completely biased at this point but it's sounding more and more like the blackhawk broke ceiling and was nonchalant about confirming advised traffic. Controller gave the UH-60 the traffic's location and altitude.

While we are raising questions, I'll never understand why the military is allowed to run dark through some of these corridors. They should have to be in a TFR or a block to have their transponders off.

from one youtube video i saw it was similar to what BenP said of seeing one plane but not the correct plane

The video posted showed how the 2 planes cleared to land were lined up so he is suspecting that when the blackhawk pilot was asking & confirming visual separation he was seeing plane #2 in the landing que not the closer plane that he ultimately hit.

my personal thought is that night time visual might not be the best option in some of the busier airspaces. if you're VFR only (not the case in this one) choose a quieter airport for night approaches or be grounded before dark if you insist on a busy airport

 

[kodiakisland]

from one youtube video i saw it was similar to what BenP said of seeing one plane but not the correct plane

The video posted showed how the 2 planes cleared to land were lined up so he is suspecting that when the blackhawk pilot was asking & confirming visual separation he was seeing plane #2 in the landing que not the closer plane that he ultimately hit.

my personal thought is that night time visual might not be the best option in some of the busier airspaces. if you're VFR only (not the case in this one) choose a quieter airport for night approaches or be grounded before dark if you insist on a busy airport

And that's where ADS-B would have told them of the second plane they didn't see. Even my Super Cub is required to have it in controlled space. hard to understand why military aircraft aren't required when flying in US controlled space. I know they have a ton of stuff to do and one more thing to look at is overload, but it is great for SA on a plane you don't see.

 

[ismith]

from one youtube video i saw it was similar to what BenP said of seeing one plane but not the correct plane

The video posted showed how the 2 planes cleared to land were lined up so he is suspecting that when the blackhawk pilot was asking & confirming visual separation he was seeing plane #2 in the landing que not the closer plane that he ultimately hit.

my personal thought is that night time visual might not be the best option in some of the busier airspaces. if you're VFR only (not the case in this one) choose a quieter airport for night approaches or be grounded before dark if you insist on a busy airport

This is one of the questions the NTSB and the US Army are going to have to figure out.

 

[BuzzH]

This isn't wrong; however, safety is always a priority. Most aviation incidents are not due to one oversight, but rather compounding issues that lead to disaster.

Most all accidents that lead to a fatality are an issue of compounding mistakes, normally at least 3.

 

[ismith]

And that's where ADS-B would have told them of the second plane they didn't see. Even my Super Cub is required to have it in controlled space. hard to understand why military aircraft aren't required when flying in US controlled space. I know they have a ton of stuff to do and one more thing to look at is overload, but it is great for SA on a plane you don't see.

I'm not sure ADS-B would have made a difference. No disrespect, but there's a lot more happening in a UH-60 @ 300 agl and 130 kts than a Super Cub at that attitude.

 

[kodiakisland]

I'm not sure ADS-B would have made a difference. No disrespect, but there's a lot more happening in a UH-60 @ 300 agl and 130 kts than a Super Cub at that attitude.

Yeah, I acknowledged the fact they are at overload. ADS-B would have shown the plane, it's direction of travel, and it's difference in altitude to the helo. Planes are difficult to pick up in the air, especially at night in a well lit city. Additional SA isn't a bad thing.
ADS-B is a requirement for every aircraft in controlled space, excluding military.

 

[jls456]

Very sad.Prayers to their family.

 

[Brauee20]

That controller will be far harder on himself than anyone else. It's really not about placing blame but trying to prevent something like this from happening again.

Poor soul is probably 3 states away hiding in a hotel after the White House press conference this afternoon. There was plenty of blame being pushed around before the NTSB or FAA have even mentioned an initial report.

Nobody wants to die in an air-to-air collision.

Right there with you.

 

[LopeHunter]

Tower: "PAT25 traffic just south of (unclear) bridge is a CRJ at 1,200ft turning for Runway 33"

PAT25: PAT25 has the Traffic in sight, request visual separation

Tower: Visual separation approved.

The runway switch was relayed to the UH-60, as well as instructions to pass behind the RJ.

And yet, the helo speared the plane actually headed to land on 33.

Might modify what the helo pilot needs to affirm. Perhaps change Tower to be: "PAT25 multiple runways in use. I repeat, multiple runways in use with landing approaches underway. Traffic just south of (unclear) bridge is a CRJ at 1,200ft turning for Runway 33"

 

[SwaggyD]

And yet, the helo speared the plane actually headed to land on 33.

Might modify what the helo pilot needs to affirm. Perhaps change Tower to be: "PAT25 multiple runways in use. I repeat, multiple runways in use with landing approaches underway. Traffic just south of (unclear) bridge is a CRJ at 1,200ft turning for Runway 33"

What does PAT stand for?

 

[ismith]

And yet, the helo speared the plane actually headed to land on 33.

Might modify what the helo pilot needs to affirm. Perhaps change Tower to be: "PAT25 multiple runways in use. I repeat, multiple runways in use with landing approaches underway. Traffic just south of (unclear) bridge is a CRJ at 1,200ft turning for Runway 33"

Wouldn’t have mattered. By the time they realized their mistake they were already terminal.

 

[ismith]

What does PAT stand for?

PAT25 was the helicopters call sign.