Range on a GSP

[SoCalhunt88]

I’ll start out by saying yes I know and agree range is largely genetic and you can’t make a 50yd dog a 400yd dog unless you’re the one running away. However I have a GSP in her first season and she seems to have confidence issues, checks in a fair amount and doesn’t want to go too long without seeing me on a hunt. Curious if others have seen their dogs grow more confident and range further out as they mature, she’s just over one and we’ve hunted wild birds +30 days in MT, NV, AZ,& CA. This is my first bird dog so I’m learning as well, when we’re in the field I don’t micromanage I let her run and but she seems to like to stay in the 40-60yd range with a long cast out to 100ish. For the type of terrain I’d really like a dog 200-400yds out, is this out of the question and I need to start thinking of another dog or is it possible. Thanks guys for the time and insight.
cheers,
MV

 

[Salmonchaser]

At least she isn’t over the ridge! I have two GSPs. They are 8 and 9. Sugar has always hunted close, until last year. Now I have to watch her. Now she wants to range further then Molly who is a big runner. Long story short, she might start ranging if she finds success.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Personally I prefer watching a dog work close. Long distance dogs are overrated in my opinion. They often run by the birds closer working flushing dogs will pick up behind them. My Lab is a great pointer that works quite close. I find that the closer working dogs are more attached to me. More responsive and less independent. What's not to like?

 

[SoCalhunt88]

I don’t need range just for range or to compare to other dogs, my
hope is that she hits areas so I don’t have to. That being said I think there is some validity into getting into more birds or areas with more birds so she knows her searching turns into success.

 

[Walkathon]

One of my GSP's hunted really close her first year out. I just let her do her thing since she was pointing fine and not flushing birds that she could smell. Eventually (years 2 / 3) she started working further out as she gained confidence and started to understand places where the birds were likely to be. I've only had 2 GSP's so I don't have a huge amount of experience, but both of mine started close and eventually started working further out.

 

[SoCalhunt88]

One of my GSP's hunted really close her first year out. I just let her do her thing since she was pointing fine and not flushing birds that she could smell. Eventually (years 2 / 3) she started working further out as she gained confidence and started to understand places where the birds were likely to be. I've only had 2 GSP's so I don't have a huge amount of experience, but both of mine started close and eventually started working further out.

Appreciate the input, it’s my first GSP myself so I’m learning as much as she is.

 

[JLS]

I wouldn’t worry about it. Just keep hunting her. The less you talk to her and the fewer commands you give, the better off you are.

 

[SoCalhunt88]

I wouldn’t worry about it. Just keep hunting her. The less you talk to her and the fewer commands you give, the better off you are.

Appreciate it, that’s been my goal as of late. Just let her do her thing and try and put her into new areas to build on experience and comfort. Been in northwest Nevada this week, and been getting our ass kicked. Not many birds so far.

 

[Irrelevant]

I can't offer much help. I spent the last decade having the opposite problem. I can assure you, between the two, your problem is more enjoyable.

 

[Salmonchaser]

You might try, perhaps you are, hunting ground that has narrow step canyons. Kind of place she might be sixty yards away but it’ll bust your lungs to get over there in less than 15 minutes, because of the canyon between you. If she’ll follow her nose over there her confidence is fine.
I’d rather have my dog inside 100 in the ground your hunting in that photo, chucks won’t hold forever particularly if they see you coming. Flat ground, sharp tail country it might help to range more but can you see the dog, know what she’s doing?
More I think about it I think your fine as long as she is covering the ground. Have fun.

 

[Salmonchaser]

You might try, perhaps you are, hunting ground that has narrow step canyons. Kind of place she might be sixty yards away but it’ll bust your lungs to get over there in less than 15 minutes, because of the canyon between you. If she’ll follow her nose over there her confidence is fine.
I’d rather have my dog inside 100 in the ground your hunting in that photo, chucks won’t hold forever particularly if they see you coming. Flat ground, sharp tail country it might help to range more but can you see the dog, know what she’s doing?
More I think about it I think your fine as long as she is covering the ground. Have fun.

 

[406dn]

Some of her potential for range depends on the speed at which she hunts. If she is just trotting along, she is never going range all that far. However, if she hunts at a good clip, she will range bigger as her confidence grows. It will be your job to bolster her confidence.

You can do that by largely keeping your mouth shut except to tell her all right, when she turns to look at you when she doesn't quite know what her next move should be.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Mule man]

You are lucky, generally it is the other way around. She will start ranging soon enough, and as said above you really need to watch your dog and start reading her as chucks will not hold forever,espeically this time of year. In chuckar country not many hunters have enough lung to make it 200 yards for a point let alone 400 yards. Always use the wind and don't rush the shot. Good luck

 

[SoCalhunt88]

I can't offer much help. I spent the last decade having the opposite problem. I can assure you, between the two, your problem is more enjoyable.

Appreciate it, may be just be a case of grass is greener for me. Good getting input from others

 

[SoCalhunt88]

You might try, perhaps you are, hunting ground that has narrow step canyons. Kind of place she might be sixty yards away but it’ll bust your lungs to get over there in less than 15 minutes, because of the canyon between you. If she’ll follow her nose over there her confidence is fine.
I’d rather have my dog inside 100 in the ground your hunting in that photo, chucks won’t hold forever particularly if they see you coming. Flat ground, sharp tail country it might help to range more but can you see the dog, know what she’s doing?
More I think about it I think your fine as long as she is covering the ground. Have fun.

She follows her nose at a good clip and basically into any terrain if she gets a good wiff of something birdy otherwise she trots and searches at a moderate pace. In canyons like you’re mentioning she will go across and do her thing. At the end of the day, I’m killing birds I wouldn’t of without her so there’s that.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I don't hunt chukars unfortunately, but these guys are spot on about late season birds not holding. I usually don't get to Montana till three weeks after opener and pheasants are already in "late season" jumpy mode. Gets worse after snow is on the ground. Guys on the refuge I hunted in late November were getting busted with rangey pointers. One pair of fellas from Bozeman hunted hard with a GSP for three days and got one bird for three shots total. I met them on the way out at noon with a limit. Shot one the day before as well. The difference was a close working pointing Lab and hunting in the cattails (fortunately, Ellie is amazing finding downed birds in that crap). My relatively close working Fr Britt didn't work close enough. A GSP would be who knows where. After the first week or maybe two, sharpies won't hold at all no matter how sneaky the dog is unless you can find a single. Hard to get close enough for a shot at a flock unless the dog is right next to me. Best to let binocs find the birds and use the dog for retreiving only.

 

[SoCalhunt88]

I don't hunt chukars unfortunately, but these guys are spot on about late season birds not holding. I usually don't get to Montana till three weeks after opener and pheasants are already in "late season" jumpy mode. Gets worse after snow is on the ground. Guys on the refuge I hunted in late November were getting busted with rangey pointers. One pair of fellas from Bozeman hunted hard with a GSP for three days and got one bird for three shots total. I met them on the way out at noon with a limit. Shot one the day before as well. The difference was a close working pointing Lab and hunting in the cattails (fortunately, Ellie is amazing finding downed birds in that crap). My relatively close working Fr Britt didn't work close enough. A GSP would be who knows where. After the first week or maybe two, sharpies won't hold at all no matter how sneaky the dog is unless you can find a single. Hard to get close enough for a shot at a flock unless the dog is right next to me. Best to let binocs find the birds and use the dog for retreiving only.

Certainly sounds like that style of hunting is more conducive to a lab style dog. I tent to run in more open areas after quail Chukar and did have a fun trip to Montana for the opener this year for Huns and sharptails but the rangier dogs tend to find more birds from the little I’ve seen

 

[JLS]

My experience is a little different. Birds can and will hold long enough for you to close 1-200 yards on a point. Not always, and sometimes they flush when they see the dog at 50 yards. Of course, a lot of this will depend on the dog too, both in how steady they are and how much the pressure the birds on point. It also depends a lot on the cover, if the birds are moving from roost to feed, weather, and so on.

I think a far more important attribute than range is the dog's ability to work the wind out of the canyons and be able to locate birds by doing that. In the country I hunt, that will save many miles on a dog at the end of the day.

 

[brymoore]

I’d ask the breeder what its expectations for range are for the dogs they breed.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Certainly sounds like that style of hunting is more conducive to a lab style dog. I tent to run in more open areas after quail Chukar and did have a fun trip to Montana for the opener this year for Huns and sharptails but the rangier dogs tend to find more birds from the little I’ve seen

Nice photo.

Twelve years ago when working in Montana I was able to hunt opening week with a fella and his German wire haired pointer for Huns and sharpies. Yes, it was fun and we had no trouble catching up to the dog in time for a shot. My little three month-old Lab did a great job of finding a couple of overlooked birds in close. But by the time pheasant season opened two weeks later it was already a different story with sharpies. Spooky buggers. Incidentally, I only hunted with that guy just the once. He drank a beer on the way back to town (I passed on the offer) then threw the bottle out the window. I told him to go back and get it or let me out. He laughed: "We're thirty miles from town." I don't care. Let me out. He went back and picked it up and never said another word. Never heard from him again either. Oh well. Decent dog, douche bag owner.

You have to weigh the advantages of finding more birds vs the shots at birds found. Especially in a lean year and/or later in the season it may take several days of seeing birds bust out of range before one makes a mistake and offers a shot. In open country a rangey pointing dog MAY find three times as many birds as a close working flushing dog ( and I say that is definitely arguable). But if the flusher produces three times as many shooting opportunities, what's the advantage of the pointer? I see a definite advantage in the flusher in that they generally work at the hunter's pace ... if they have been trained right. No need to run a couple hundred yards to catch up for a shot over point.