Randy Newberg's position on grizzly bear hunting

[Deleted member 28227]

I think another potentially good rule would be no posting of kill shots or grip and grins on social media, given the controversial nature of this hunt with mainstream America the hunting community would be foolish not to call for this rule.

 

[Sawtooth]

Only thing I can't agreen with is the substantial application fee.Sounds like that totally goes against the very things you stand for.A 6k NR tag fee is ridiculous.Who has that to throw around but the rich.So it sounds like this grizzly hunt is just a hunt for the well off,and everyone here seems to agree,I'm amazed

I am surprised at the suggestion of a higher app and agreement of everyone as well.

 

[belly-deep]

I think another potentially good rule would be no posting of kill shots or grip and grins on social media, given the controversial nature of this hunt with mainstream America the hunting community would be foolish not to call for this rule.

That wouldn't survive the first lawsuit or criminal prosecution

 

[KJH]

I can't disagree with Randy's thoughts as I'm on board with that, but then the other side of me says that having to be a person of significant means to hunt the "peoples resource" is not what hunting should be about.

 

[brymoore]

From what I understand, grizzly would be lumped into sheep, goat and moose regs/rules.

How does this work with a Spring hunt?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

That wouldn't survive the first lawsuit or criminal prosecution

It's already a rule being proposed for an elk hunt in CO and you have to sign away your right to post pictures to participate in the hunt. I think it you made it a rule people would generally follow it, although you are right it be almost impossible to prosecute.

https://assets.bouldercounty.org/wp...-rabbit-mountain-elk-management-plan-2017.pdf
page 17

 

[huntid73]

Brymoore, no clue on how the season would work, was meaning that from the proposal that was sent out for comment, I was of the understanding that as far as applying/drawing goes, it would be the same as the other trophy species in Idaho. Here's a link to the final proposals that I saw on the website:
https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/fish-and-game-commission-issues-grizzly-bear-management-proposal

 

[The Hedgehog]

It's cheaper to apply for bighorn sheep in Montana than it is to buy a 6 pack of beer. There's something seriously wrong with that. Hopefully that won't be the case with grizzly bear permit applications.

Guys will complain if they cannot have everybody in their house apply for a permit, for a price less than that of seeing the latest Star Wars movie at the mall.

 

[Jim/Wa]

I'm not sure I agree with the idea of a substantial application fee either. Although I understand the intent is to weed out the less serious applicants it also implies people with more money have better morals. I'd be on board with a full tag fee up front with a refund if unsuccessful scenario.

 

[Addicting]

I will go on record as strongly disagreeing with this. Maybe we could make them all auction tags, that would keep the riff raff out.

Auctions won't keep riff raff out. Bill Busbice gets his hunting permission back in a few years and he has already shown he will throw money at a tag and do riff raff stuff.

Grizzlies need to be with inreach of the common sportsman and woman financially. If your asking that same person to help protect the public land that Griz lives on but then make it so they can never afford it and only the well off get to. What kind of message does that send? I can afford time and a 1 or 2k refundable App tag. But a 6k non refundable tag APP will never happen on my Army Salary.

 

[JM77]

I just believe that judging a hunters level of commitment, or their character by the thickness of their wallet is flawed logic. As far as having to take further education to be eligible to apply, I would be fine with that.

I am also agreeing with this.^^^ By saying a "substantial fee" would keep a certain type of hunter away, we are seriously stereotyping hunters on low or fixed income as some kind of riff-raff. Randy, do you mean keeping away those those that might apply as a novelty? People who wouldn't hunt if they drew or a least are not much of a hunter?

I know people like that and they have plenty of money.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I'm less worried about the hunter than I am the perception of the hunt.

If all you want to do is hunt a bear, then get an OTC tag for black bear. This is a species that has a constituency far beyond what wolves did. The hunt isn't about the hunter or the opportunity, it's the special nature of what this hunt really represents - the conservation of the American west and the restoration of a keystone species. To me, that demands a premium.

 

[belly-deep]

It's already a rule being proposed for an elk hunt in CO and you have to sign away your right to post pictures to participate in the hunt. I think it you made it a rule people would generally follow it, although you are right it be almost impossible to prosecute.

https://assets.bouldercounty.org/wp...-rabbit-mountain-elk-management-plan-2017.pdf
page 17

Blatant 1st amendment violation.

That aside, I'm still against it. I don't think appeasement or hiding is the way to go with hunting right now. Maybe other things, but not hunting.

 

[The Hedgehog]

The hunt isn't about the hunter or the opportunity, it's the special nature of what this hunt really represents - the conservation of the American west and the restoration of a keystone species. To me, that demands a premium.

This. And I think what Randy means is $3 application fees don't fit the bill. Currently, Montana residents can apply for moose, sheep and goat for $10 each. That's ridiculous.

 

[Big Fin]

This. And I think what Randy means is $3 application fees don't fit the bill. Currently, Montana residents can apply for moose, sheep and goat for $10 each. That's ridiculous.

Maybe I should have given what I think is a reasonable application fee so people don't think I'm advocating only rich folks should be able to apply. I didn't throw that out there, as I don't think my opinion on that, or even any of the other issues is any more important than any other person's opinion. My comfort is around a $50 non-refundable application fee. I also would advocate that it not be part of the point system we have. Points systems solve nothing when tag numbers are super low.

As I said in the original post, these are my opinions and if others have different opinions, I'm fine with that. If most folks think $50 is too much for a grizzly tag application, then I'm sure it will be lower than that. Anyone wanting to make some implication as to what "I stand for" based on me not giving a dollar amount or my opinion that $50 seems reasonable, can surely advocate for something else.

If the application fee is the current ridiculously low level Greenhorn mentions for our moose, goat, sheep, I expect a lot of applicants who like the novelty of this hunt.

Not sure introduced the word "riff-raff" to the discussion, but it wasn't me. I make no connection between financial resources and quality of the person. If folks feel $50 represents having "fat wallets" and some of the other comments interjected since I posted, then I guess we will have differing opinions.

 

[grizzly_]

Blatant 1st amendment violation.

Doubtful, you're applying for a special permit. Its a privilege to hunt there, not a right, and thus the regulations are set by the governing body. If you don't want to abide by those rules, don't apply.

 

[Addicting]

Big Fin, for me in terms of applications we are spending upwards of 700 dollars per state in Elk applications. When a CPA uses the word significant and nonrefundable it makes my butt pucker. Especially, after seeing a post on here a month or so ago talking about Wyoming and the 6k NR tag cost.

50 dollars is reasonable and most of us spend that on Super Tags or Dairy Queen tabs.

 

[The Hedgehog]

$50 Is 1/2 the price for a day pass to ride the chairlift at Big Sky.

 

[tjones]

You know the wheels have come off the bus when we compare the price for a MT griz permit to a DQ tab.

 

[Idahoarcheryhunter]

You know the wheels have come off the bus when we compare the price for a MT griz permit to a DQ tab.

You must underestimate my dq tab :hump: