Qustion for BigFin....

[michsteelguy]

I know there probably is a long story to it..... and I dont intend for your to spend alot of your time answering this, but I was REALLY curious to know...... how does one become a professional hunter (that you can make a living doing) ???? I dont mean a guide, but one who gets "paid" to actually HUNT. Now I may be assuming too much on that issue, but tha'ts what I've always thought (in my head) about the reputable hunters one sees on the tube. I'm beyond that stage in life, but have had that question in my head since my 20's. In addition to that, how were you able to acquire a show that is seen all over the country? Just curious.

 

[A-con]

Like we say in the food service industry, if you want to make a million dollars owning a restaurant, start with 3 million.
Professional hunter, rock star, actor, professional athlete, for everyone that actually makes money, there are thousands who dream about it, work hard for years (decades) at it, invest all their time, money and effort at it, and never see a penny of profit.

 

[Oak]

how does one become a professional hunter (that you can make a living doing) ???? I dont mean a guide, but one who gets "paid" to actually HUNT.

I'll bet Fin would love to know the answer to this one as well.

 

[jryoung]

My guess is there are a lot of different paths but most either build a reputation through some combination of guiding, working in the industry (clothing, optics, gear etc.), having their own show. For those that become successful and it becomes their day job one consistent denominator is their product promotion...borderline pimp status.

I think Lee and Tiffany have their own line off hunting toilet paper at this point.

 

[captaincoot]

I want to know how mad he was at the cattle being on the road in the wolf hunt video 1 not so mad 10 really mad

 

[JWP58]

I would guess, that his day job is a start. I would also guess that he breaks even on most excursions....gas, tags, camera gear, camera guy, etc, etc. It cant be cheap, and I'm sure sponsors help, but it cant be a super profitable enterprise.

I would assume Mr. Newberg does it because he enjoys it.

 

[Cornell2012]

He's currently off filming but I'm sure he'll get around to answering this when he has some time. I can tell you that things are not cheap.

Unlike some TV show formats, the hunting networks charge the shows airtime fees. This means that hunting TV shows have to pick up all of the costs from filming, production, tags, travel, and airtime. This isn't cheap and the best way to recover costs is by sponsors. That's why some notable show hosts have more sponsors than a standard NASCAR vehicle: they need to do so in order to get past break-even. Running a TV show requires no small time commitment to going to trade shows, talking with company reps, finding sponsors, and keeping sponsors happy. This is something that goes on with every hunting show out there, but doesn't really ever get air time. Maybe this is a topic we could try to make a small web clip about to put on the Youtube channel in the future.

These costs are another reason why many shows operate in someone's back yard or go with outfitters - it is easier to get a "successful" episode, the hunts are usually shorter (cutting down on camera and production fees), the tag research is less time consuming, and it is easier to get (technically) high-quality video. I'm sure there are other factors I'm not thinking of, but there is a reason so many shows seem to use the same format.

 

[Eyeguy]

He's currently off filming but I'm sure he'll get around to answering this when he has some time. I can tell you that things are not cheap.

Unlike some TV show formats, the hunting networks charge the shows airtime fees. This means that hunting TV shows have to pick up all of the costs from filming, production, tags, travel, and airtime. This isn't cheap and the best way to recover costs is by sponsors. That's why some notable show hosts have more sponsors than a standard NASCAR vehicle: they need to do so in order to get past break-even. Running a TV show requires no small time commitment to going to trade shows, talking with company reps, finding sponsors, and keeping sponsors happy. This is something that goes on with every hunting show out there, but doesn't really ever get air time. Maybe this is a topic we could try to make a small web clip about to put on the Youtube channel in the future.

These costs are another reason why many shows operate in someone's back yard or go with outfitters - it is easier to get a "successful" episode, the hunts are usually shorter (cutting down on camera and production fees), the tag research is less time consuming, and it is easier to get (technically) high-quality video. I'm sure there are other factors I'm not thinking of, but there is a reason so many shows seem to use the same format.

This is great info to know…thanks so much for your insight. As viewers, we are not stupid. You can tell the guys who are in it for themselves and for the money. These shows take 15 minutes to name all of their sponsors and they drop those names every time they get a chance. It kinda gets old. Randy, in stark contrast, is in it for the hunting and for the adventures. I truly believe he does what he does because he loves it…and because he wants to help others. You can see it in his face. He has helped me become much more confident in choosing my spots and just getting the courage to get a tag, drive out and hunt.

 

[Cornell2012]

This is great info to know…thanks so much for your insight. As viewers, we are not stupid. You can tell the guys who are in it for themselves and for the money. These shows take 15 minutes to name all of their sponsors and they drop those names every time they get a chance. It kinda gets old. Randy, in stark contrast, is in it for the hunting and for the adventures. I truly believe he does what he does because he loves it…and because he wants to help others. You can see it in his face. He has helped me become much more confident in choosing my spots and just getting the courage to get a tag, drive out and hunt.

The hunts bring out pretty much every emotion you can imagine: excitement, frustration, anger, despair, hope, fun, etc. Bringing cameras along sometimes gets in the way of the fun parts of the hunt and exacerbates the less fun parts.

He hasn't outright said it, but I think he enjoys seeing the stories of people who watch the show and the impact it has had on their lives, whether that is trying something new or just reminding them to take a step back and enjoy the small things.

 

[Big Fin]

The hunts bring out pretty much every emotion you can imagine: excitement, frustration, anger, despair, hope, fun, etc. Bringing cameras along sometimes gets in the way of the fun parts of the hunt and exacerbates the less fun parts.

He hasn't outright said it, but I think he enjoys seeing the stories of people who watch the show and the impact it has had on their lives, whether that is trying something new or just reminding them to take a step back and enjoy the small things.

You would probably know that with more insight than most. And yes, that is the greatest reward in doing this show.

To michsteelguy, the answer to your question probably can be found in this favorite line my wife uses when people as about the show, "It's the best job he ever bought."

I am probably the wrong guy to ask about how one gets "paid to hunt'" assuming the intent of the question implies that the paid part means the payments are more than the expenses to do so. There is no easy answer as to how you get "paid" to hunt. A smart person would do it as an employee of some operation that is in the hunting world.

I get this question A LOT. In fact, an industry person told me I need to write a book about how to start your own TV show. I laughed at her, knowing few people, if any, would want to read about a my TV business model where you get to work this hard, take all this risk, and not take a paycheck for six years.

I don't have a product to sell. I don't have a service to sell. I really don't have anything to sell, other than hope when we are out there filming that a hunting story will somehow come of it. And sometimes, no hunting story comes of it.

But, I'm in it too deep to turn back now. My only hope for freedom is that the network dumps me.

If someone else knows how to make money with a TV show, please send michsteelguy a PM. My model would not be one he should follow.

 

[sneakypete]

Big Fin " well said" by the way happy elated birthday.

 

[bigskyblueman]

As we may not know what public land hunting will look like in 100 years, or if it will even exist, and given the fact that Big Fins' program is one of a kind, these episodes may have lasting historical value and a look back into a different age.

 

[michsteelguy]

You would probably know that with more insight than most. And yes, that is the greatest reward in doing this show.

To michsteelguy, the answer to your question probably can be found in this favorite line my wife uses when people as about the show, "It's the best job he ever bought."

I am probably the wrong guy to ask about how one gets "paid to hunt'" assuming the intent of the question implies that the paid part means the payments are more than the expenses to do so. There is no easy answer as to how you get "paid" to hunt. A smart person would do it as an employee of some operation that is in the hunting world.

I get this question A LOT. In fact, an industry person told me I need to write a book about how to start your own TV show. I laughed at her, knowing few people, if any, would want to read about a my TV business model where you get to work this hard, take all this risk, and not take a paycheck for six years.

I don't have a product to sell. I don't have a service to sell. I really don't have anything to sell, other than hope when we are out there filming that a hunting story will somehow come of it. And sometimes, no hunting story comes of it.

But, I'm in it too deep to turn back now. My only hope for freedom is that the network dumps me.

If someone else knows how to make money with a TV show, please send michsteelguy a PM. My model would not be one he should follow.

I guess I should clarify what I meant about being "paid" in my original question. My implication of payment was NOT directed at you...per say. As a public land hunter, I realize you are in a TOTALLY different situation than most of the hunters we watch on tv. When I used the word "paid", I was mainly talking about those other (big name hunters) that receive free hunts on ranches or with outfitters/guides as form of indirect "payment" as well. One can even extend that further with the acquisition of free equipment such as bows, guns, even 4 wheelers or buggies, etc. from sponsors. I may be totally off base with that assumption, but thats what I had always thought.
Let me give an example..... Lets say that Realtree Outdoors or Jim Shockey, or Tom Miranda want to do a hunt for tv. They contact an outfitter and discuss the plan. I had always believed that the outfitter (usually) would provide free hunts, in exchange for exposure, promotion etc.. A hunt that would cost me 5 or 10k(++) is zero to them knowing their dealing with "bigshots" in the industry, not just anyone. In my eyes, I watch these guys go on trips of a lifetime (for me), every other month and wonder how its done (financially) if no one is paid. I realize that most of these big timers have other businesses (which may help finance) the hunting portion of their life,but I gotta believe that someone at Realtree Outdoors (for example) gets paid beyond just a free hunt. No.....I'm not talking about the "employee" cameraman which makes a salary, but rather the main business entity in itself. Please set me straight if I have it all wrong. I submitted the question because I figured you would have more of a clue than myself.... as you are WAY more of an industry insider than I. It was asked as a generalization question only, and I certainly hope you didnt take it in a negative way. Much respect goes out to you and all you do for for showing us what real life possibilities are to us "regular" everyday hunters! Thank you.

 

[michsteelguy]

This question leads back to the absolute bottom line....... what makes a professional hunter, a professional???? (at least to the point of getting a professionals benefits- i.e."paid"... see post above").

 

[Ron Wright]

Professional Hunters and Trappers work for the government doing depredation. That's the job you want, if you want a benefits package and paychecks

 

[Big Fin]

Let me give an example..... Lets say that Realtree Outdoors or Jim Shockey, or Tom Miranda want to do a hunt for tv. They contact an outfitter and discuss the plan. I had always believed that the outfitter (usually) would provide free hunts, in exchange for exposure, promotion etc.. A hunt that would cost me 5 or 10k(++) is zero to them knowing their dealing with "bigshots" in the industry, not just anyone. In my eyes, I watch these guys go on trips of a lifetime (for me), every other month and wonder how its done (financially) if no one is paid. I realize that most of these big timers have other businesses (which may help finance) the hunting portion of their life,but I gotta believe that someone at Realtree Outdoors (for example) gets paid beyond just a free hunt. No.....I'm not talking about the "employee" cameraman which makes a salary, but rather the main business entity in itself. Please set me straight if I have it all wrong. I submitted the question because I figured you would have more of a clue than myself.... as you are WAY more of an industry insider than I. It was asked as a generalization question only, and I certainly hope you didnt take it in a negative way. Much respect goes out to you and all you do for for showing us what real life possibilities are to us "regular" everyday hunters! Thank you.

Yes, those guys get paid beyond just a free hunt and free gear. The commercials you see within a show are split among three groups - The show producer, the network, and the carrier (cable or satellite). Who gets what slots, and how many, is negotiated as part of the network contract. There is a total of 16 commercials (8 minutes) in a :30 minute episode.

Those commercial slots get sold to sponsors. From selling those slots, the producer realizes revenues to hopefully pay production costs and to pay "talent" (loose use of the term in this industry). So, when you see some of those people you mention, they are getting paid over and above the "free hunt."

Many of the shows with big budgets for trips and talent are shows owned by large manufacturers/businesses within the hunting world. Example - Primos, Realtree, Mathews, etc.

These companies need to do marketing and promo within the hunting world. They have two choices; either produce their own show and fill it full of their marketing message, or go and buy commercial slots, billboards, and product integration in other shows.

For most of them, it makes much more sense to have their own shows. They go and sell sponsorship to smaller companies or to their industry partners, to recoup their investment in the TV show. The hope is to break even. If they can break even and get that huge amount of marketing presence, that is a big plus. If they lose some money, they can still justify it as being a marketing investment that probably provides a higher return than if they spent the same dollars in other shows. If they make money at it, the guy in charge of their marketing department gets some big accolades for making the TV marketing a cash flow positive outcome.

In the process of doing that, those companies have to pay their talent. Many of them started out as camera guys, or some other employee, eventually finding themselves on camera. A few of them get to hunt full time and get paid for it. I think those are the guys you are referring to in your questions.

There are thousands of guys wanting to land one of those few positions. When I go to industry trade shows (not consumer trade shows), I see the booths of companies inundated with hunters who are providing their resumes, their sizzle reels, their pitch as to why they would be the best host the company could ever find. I shake my head and cringe, feeling sorry for the guy in charge of handling all of those suitors.

Reality is, most the guys doing it paid their dues. They ran cameras, set stands, carried gear, worked booths as unpaid promo-staff for years, whatever else the company wanted them to do. In exchange, they get a job where they travel away from their families for 6+ months per year. They have to go when/where they are told, hunt what/how they are told, hunt with whoever they are told to be with, and a host of other requirements that surely make it a job at that point. I know a few of them who have made it that way. They are good guys who know what a 100 hour week is like. They know what it means to work/film, no matter how good/miserable the weather, no matter how good/bad you feel that day, no matter how bad you want to be at your kids birthday/wife's anniversary, etc.

The job looks like hunting, but in reality, the job is about filming and telling a story. That is first and primary. If you cannot get something on film and do it in a way the audience finds worthwhile to watch, you are not doing your job and you will not have that job for very long. Those who understand that are around a long time. Those who think this is just a glorified hunting trip usually last less than a season.

Hope that helps.

 

[double_a85]

Wow--- thanks for giving such a great insight to this industry, Randy.

 

[noharleyyet]

..to paraphrase

 

[michsteelguy]

Thank you Big Fin! Your response summed it all up for me. The examples were exactly what I was referring to. Once again I want to thank YOU...... for what YOU do, which adds to the "betterment" of all of our hunting lives.

 

[MNElkNut]

Randy your comment about the guys at trade shows trying to peddle themselves (their sizzle reels) really made me think. In general, those are not the kind of guys I want to watch. I like watching ordinary people with a good personality. That is probably a lot harder to find than one would think, but really that is true. A used car salesman turns me off every time. Ditto an overly intense guy, a jerk, someone who makes light of game, someone who doesn't appreciate other parts of the hunt and any hint of unethicalness (I think I just made up a new word there....!).

I get really sick of hearing the phrase "this is what its all about" or "this was such a hard hunt", but I do want the STORY of the show to give me that impression. It follows my own view of hunting. Like anyone else, of course I want to shoot a monster bull or buck, but the most important thing to me is a quality hunt. Doing it right, earning it and then the icing on the cake of a big animal to harvest. I have told many people that one of my fears is shooting a huge animal the "cheap way". By this I mean, you are standing somewhere eating a sandwich and a monster buck walks right up to you, so you blast it. Neat that you got a big one...I guess....but not how I want to shoot one. So in a TV show, I want to see the person earn the prize by putting in a great effort first. All this to say, that I think the person who can pull that off is way ahead of those guys with crummy jokes and corny shticks in getting to be on TV.