Quick Facts about grazing

[Ithaca 37]

Public lands grazers comprise a minority of livestock producers in the West and throughout the country:

Number of livestock producers with federal grazing permits: 27,000.
Percentage of livestock producers with federal grazing permits in the United States: 3 percent.
Percentage of livestock producers with federal grazing permits in eleven Western states: 22 percent.
Number of livestock producers without federal grazing permits: 880,000.
Subsidized by taxpayers, public lands grazers pay far less than market value for federal forage and grazing fees in comparable state and private lands:

Fee to graze one cow and calf for one month (AUM, or Animal Unit Month) on federal public lands (2001): $1.35.
Average fee per AUM on state lands in the West (excluding Texas) (1998): $12.30.
Average fee per AUM on private lands in eleven Western (1999): $11.10.
The forage provided and beef produced from federal public lands is insignificant:

Percentage of total feed for livestock in the United States supplied from federal lands: 2 percent.
Percentage of American beef produced from federal rangelands: less than 3 percent.
Federal grazing programs contribute very little to Western states' economies. Aggregate Federal Grazing Statistics for eleven Western states:

Federal grazing jobs: 17,989.
Federal grazing jobs as a percentage of total employment: 0.06 percent.
Federal grazing income as a percentage of total income: 0.04 percent.
Days of normal job growth to replace all federal grazing jobs: 11 days.
Days of normal income growth to replace all federal grazing jobs: 6 days.

 

[Bambistew]

Thats some great propaganda...

How about some stats on number of animals run on public land compared to private? I know a lot of "livestock" producers that have fewer than 5 cows...

 

[JoseCuervo]

Bambistew,

Why should the little guy with 5 cows have to be forced to compete against a huge Welfare Corporation???

What happened to America, where everyone could compete with the Capital of their own (hence the origin of Capitalism). Why would you now support a system where we allocate Public Resources to be used by private individuals to compete against those who use their own Capital??

 

[Ithaca 37]

Bambi, "How about some stats on number of animals run on public land compared to private? I know a lot of "livestock" producers that have fewer than 5 cows..."

Why don't you show us some stats yourself? I'm surprised you'd want somebody else to do your research for you. Maybe you've got the welfare mentality, too.

 

[Bambistew]

Whats the matter marvles web page not have the twisted answer you were looking for???

 

[Michaelr]

This is one issue where I have changed my views.

I believe we could do without cattle on public ground. I know my hunting areas would improve 1000%
there is really no reason all our beef can't be produced on private ground.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Bambi,

Percentage of total feed for livestock in the United States supplied from federal lands: 2 percent.

Percentage of American beef produced from federal rangelands: less than 3 percent

Don't those answer your question?

 

[Nemont]

I am curious of the methodology used. As you know there a lies, damn lies and then statistics.

Here is a question what percentage of cattle graze part of the year on federal lands? What is the economic and enviromental impact on the remaining range by cattle spending part of the year on federal lands?
Because the statistics don't tell you that cattle are usually on the federal lease for 4 to 5 months out the year. When you use 12 months to compare the numbers are wrong.

Federal grazing jobs: 17,989.
Federal grazing jobs as a percentage of total employment: 0.06 percent.
Federal grazing income as a percentage of total income: 0.04 percent.
Days of normal job growth to replace all federal grazing jobs: 11 days. Days of normal income growth to replace all federal grazing jobs: 6 days

I thought you guys have said President Bush has ended job growth and income growth.

Which of those 17,989 people would cease to work for the interior dept. if grazing ended? Answer none because they are still need to manage the lands so that is wrong also.

Nemont

 

[Bambistew]

I'm not an advocate of public lands ranching, I think we can have both. I belive the ramifications of ending public lands ranching is a little worse than ol marvel leads us to belive.

I just get sick of seeing Marvels stats thrown around like their the word of god.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Bambi, Why don't you come up with some stats you think disprove Marvel's (btw, he's not the only one with stats like his).

I always surprises me that the cattlemen can't disprove what Marvel says, but they claim he's not telling the whole story.

"U.S. employers added almost a quarter million workers in May, extending a nine-month hiring spree and accommodating enough new jobseekers to hold the unemployment rate steady at 5.6 percent."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=&e=3&u=/ap/20040604/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy

How long ya think it would take to make up for losing 18,000 grazing jobs? How come when Worldcom collapsed all those jobs that were lost weren't nearly as much of a concern as ranching jobs? Is it because the ranchers and cowboys have no marketable skills? How much demand is there for somebody who can only fix fences, throw hay outta a pickup and sit around the local cafe and bitch about the gummint?

 

[Nemont]

Is it because the ranchers and cowboys have no marketable skills? How much demand is there for somebody who can only fix fences, throw hay outta a pickup and sit around the local cafe and bitch about the gummint?

Ithaca, There is a lot more to ranching then that. I invite you out to the place and spend a day working, willing to bet you couldn't keep up with with any of the ranchers or cowboys. Most likely couldn't keep up with any of the women folk neither. That is a dipshit comment and you know it but you are entitled to your little tirades.


EG, Ithaca sure has a low opinion of your little operation. Get out of the cafe and get to work.

Nemont

[ 06-04-2004, 13:48: Message edited by: Nemont ]

 

[Bambistew]

What about the 7,000,000 other americans that still don't have a job? You think that all those workers are going to be the first in line of the 250,000 to get a job? I find it really hard to belive that all of them are going to find a job in 11 days...

Ever tried looking for a decent job in MT, ID, or any western state for that matter, lately in your small home town were all your family lives and has lived for 100 years?

[q]How much demand is there for somebody who can only fix fences, throw hay outta a pickup and sit around the local cafe and bitch about the gummint?[/q]

I don't know how much demand is there for a self entered grouchy ol bastard that has to tie a pork chop around his neck to get his dog to go hunt with him?

How do you know what they are capable of?

 

[Ithaca 37]

"How much demand is there for somebody who can only fix fences, throw hay outta a pickup and sit around the local cafe and bitch about the gummint?"

Funny thing is, I was quoting a friend of mine who is a rancher (all on his own private land) and was talking about welfare ranchers. He said, "Most of them would be unemployable if they lost their leases." (we were talking about public land grazing leases). He can't stand welfare ranchers. Right in the middle of his 2000 acres there's a section of state school land that is leased to another rancher and he gets real wound up about some of the stuff that guy does. My rancher friend leases out some of his land bordering the public land for $10 an AUM. You think I'm hard on the welfare ranchers? You oughta talk to a few ranchers I know who own all their grazing land! They make EG look real "middle of the road"!

Bambi, "Ever tried looking for a decent job in MT, ID, or any western state for that matter, lately in your small home town were all your family lives and has lived for 100 years?"

I saw there wasn't much opportunity where I grew up, so I moved to Colorado and found a job. Does Colorado count as a western state? Then I left that job after 26 years and started a couple of my own businesses in Idaho. Does Idaho count as a western state? If I were young again and wanting to maximize my income for the next ten years I'd move to Wyoming, Colorado, Utah or maybe Montana. Do they count as western states? But I wouldn't expect somebody to provide me a job exactly within five miles of wherever I wanted to live.

That's one of the things I like about the good ol' US of A----everyone is free to move wherever they want and look for a job or start a business. But I'll admit it's tough if all you wanta do is sit on your ass and wait for the perfect job to show up exactly where you want it.

You want a "decent" job? Move to Baggs, WY, where they're going to destroy all that great wildlife habitat in this topic you started:

http://www.huntandlodge.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=002590

I was around for the oil boom in Wyoming and Colorado in the 70's. There's gonna be a lot of guys making a lot of money there again in the next 5-10 years. I know a guy who just started a business in Rock Springs last month and he can't begin to hire enough good employees for all the work he has.

But if you're gonna sit in Larslan, Montana and wait for a job to show up I'd recommend taking a real comfortable cushion to sit on.

[ 06-04-2004, 17:58: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]

 

[Ithaca 37]

Bambi, Want a job in Rock Springs?

 

[Nemont]

Itaca,

But if you're gonna sit in Larslan, Montana and wait for a job to show up I'd recommend taking a real comfortable cushion to sit on.

You got that one 100% right. Just curious if you have been to Larslan?

Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, Yes, a few times to visit Cliff Remke. He had a tractor repair service there on his wheat farm.

 

[Nemont]

Really. Well that is close to home. I have a clients throughout that area. Larslan, Glentana, Opheim, etc.

Do you ever get over here?

Nemont

 

[Tom]

Ranch "Dependence" on Federal Forage*

RANCH DEPENDENCE ON FEDERAL FORAGE IN ELEVEN WESTERN STATES **
State
Percentage of Ranches "Dependent" on Federal Grazing
Percentage of Feed from Federal Grazing
Amount of Exaggeration of Dependency (percent)
Arizona 66 24 275
California 94 4 2,350
Colorado 53 6 883
Idaho 97 14 693
Montana 43 7 614
Nevada 100 43 233
New Mexico 51 20 255
Oregon 74 11 673
Utah 99 24 413
Washington 45 2 2,250
Wyoming 76 16 475
Aggregate Eleven States 69 12 575

* "Dependent" means more than 5% of forage from federal grazing.
** Power, T. M. 1996. LOST LANDSCAPES AND FAILED ECONOMIES: THE SEARCH FOR THE VALUE OF PLACE. Island Press. Washington, DC: 183 (citing E. B. Godfrey and C. A. Pope. 1990. The trouble with livestock grazing on public lands in Current Issues in Rangeland Resource Economics. Oregon State Univ. Corvallis, OR.).

The feed that they get from federal land is exagerated, isn't it? What do you mean, comparable grazing land? They don't get any good feed from federal land, maybe.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, That was my old job that took me there. I don't ever expect to go there again. I stick a lot closer to home, now. I do miss traveling to MT, though. I was usually there at least four times a year and spent most of my time in Billings, with occasional trips all around the state. My main customer was Hines Motor Supply Company and they had branches and jobbers all over MT.

 

[Ten Bears]

Nice set of limited statistics. Where did they come from IT?????