Public Land Etiquette Question

[BuzzH]

I wont lecture others on ethics and ask that they offer me the same respect. I believe that it is in poor taste to crowd someone who is there before you. I also think it is in poor taste to demand that someone else follow "your" ethical guidelines.

I will point out the similarities between Buzz's expectations and the outfitter's expectations of the hunting public. The outfitter also tends to have been there longer, tends to be there first, and tends to have spent time clearing trails. This leads them to feel that they have some "ownership" of the area having earned it.

There was a time when this was common with hunting camps on public lands. It was also very common for people to be fiercely defensive of trap lines on public lands. I believe the commercial aspect of trapping breeds this defensiveness. This may also be the driving factor for outfitters, because their success depends on limited use by others. It is flat out bullying.

I believe that outfitters, and hunting camps, should have to work around the public just as the public works around them. I have had hunters walk through my camp in the wee hours, and I have walked through other camps in the wee hours. I have cleared trails and I have used trails cleared by others. I will never chew someone's ass for using their public lands legally.

I suppose it depends on how your ethics were taught to you as well. I don't share information with other people about public land areas that were shown to me by friends. I don't go back and hunt those areas either, unless invited back by the person that showed them to me, or at the very least, calling first. Matter of fact, I just made a phone call Tuesday, to a friend that showed me some really great spots in the Coues deer area I drew in Arizona. I called to make sure that him and his buddies didn't have tags as I have no intention of looking like an asshole showing up to a glassing spot and bumping into him or one of his buddies. Further, its just the right and ethical thing to do. Its about being a sportsman.

It was also never been a common practice, anywhere I hunt, to park your vehicle 20 feet from someone else's camp, use the trail those same guys cut in, etc. without even bothering to talk to the camp first.

That's a total and complete lack of ethics, concern for others, and clearly not trying to "work around other hunters". That's hunting right on top of others and just not giving a chit about anything or anyone else. And yes, I'll chew their ass every single time if they don't have an IQ larger than their shoe size...public land or not.

This stuff isn't rocket science...its pretty common sense.

 

[RobG]

This thread can be summed up with one of Rinella's favorite quotes, paraphrased here, "There are two types of hunters. The guys in my party and the assholes."

The further I hike in, the fewer of both types I have to deal with.

That's also an old fisherman's saying.

I only went off on someone once, and that person jumped into the hole in front of my wife and I while we were starting to fish upstream on an otherwise vacant river. You could tell by his body language he knew he was executing a dick move by jumping in front of me instead of going elsewhere so I walked up there and reaffirmed it. He agreed and apologized, which made me feel bad. I was going to offer to leap frog with him but he said he would go downstream.

 

[RobG]

Rinella is quoting the author John Gierach when he says that. Just cuz, credit where credit’s due...

Yes, founder of the National Riffle Association

 

[LuketheDog]

Rinella is quoting the author John Gierach when he says that. Just cuz, credit where credit’s due...

Yep, Gierach is a classic...

 

[onpoint]

Yes, founder of the National Riffle Association

Riffles, pools, and runs need all the help they can get.
Can you direct me to the NRA's website?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

use the trail those same guys cut in, etc.

I know I'm going to look like an idiot here but what does this mean? I feel like if you are camped next to a trail head and try to claim it that's one thing but if you pull out on some FS road and bust trail up a ridge to glass elk that's another. Is the later what you are referring to or something else?

 

[2ski]

PrairieHunter is on it.

Lots of rude behavior being discussed here. Some annoying behavior. But un-ethical behavior?....some, but not as much as people are claiming. Like unethical is a buzzword for something I don't like and find annoying. But is it really unethical? Just an example so lets not debate kneeling for the flag, but unethical, illegal, annoying, or irritant to you? If you aren't okay with it.

Parking next to your wall tent? Dick move, not doubt about it. I don't blame you for telling what for. I wouldn't call it unethical. Shooting at a target on the horizon? Unethical. Not picking on you Buzz, just the first example I could think of.

For some of the examples of people, some people may be pretty new to hunting. I say cut people some slack in some cases. I mean some of you are almost claiming to be body language experts from how many hundred yards away? "You could tell they knew..." Maybe you could in your case. I wasn't there so I don't know. Just asking that you get a little introspective too.

 

[BrentD]

Not to pick on Buzz, but I have seen people parking in trail head parking areas that didn't leave 20 ft for another person to park. They took the trail head as their personal campsite and used it all.

Seems like common, old-fashioned courtesy is in short supply these days, and not just on the hunting trails and trail heads.

 

[BuzzH]

I know I'm going to look like an idiot here but what does this mean? I feel like if you are camped next to a trail head and try to claim it that's one thing but if you pull out on some FS road and bust trail up a ridge to glass elk that's another. Is the later what you are referring to or something else?

Later...the blowdown from MPB infestation is very bad and my buddy George and I cut a trail through it. Not camped anywhere near a designated trailhead, or official trail. Where I camp is at the end of a small 2-track spur about 150 feet from a FS road. There is no reason for anyone to park that close.

I would agree 100% that if a person is going to camp at a designated trailhead, having someone park 20 feet from your tent is to be expected and nothing I would complain about. If you're dumb enough to make the choice to camp at trailhead, expect plenty of company. Similar to camping in an established campground, expect company.

 

[onpoint]

In a different thread I attached pics of guys doing exactly what Buzz spoke of - camping, dogs and all, a few yards from my wall tent.
They were indeed dumb asses. Rude, inconsiderate, clueless, as greenhorn likes - douches. I would have loved to puff out my 6'3" 230 lb chest and chew' em a new butthole.
I was there to hunt with my dog, smell the smells, see the sights, and do what I enjoy more than anything in the world. Say I kick some verbal ass, they tell me to pound sand, I get even more pissed and it escalates. Hell, I might be the one gets thumped - there's always a tougher dog in a different pack........
Rather have the memories of my girl on rock solid point, coming back to me with a rooster in her lips, and seeing the sunset over the central Montana prairie, than the bitter taste of a pissing match or worse - as I too grew up when men were men, and had my share of tough guy moments. I guess I grew up and would rather enjoy life.
Ethics or whatever - some other dumb ass isn't worth tainting memories afield.

 

[Nameless Range]

It was also never been a common practice, anywhere I hunt, to park your vehicle 20 feet from someone else's camp, use the trail those same guys cut in, etc. without even bothering to talk to the camp first.

Not trying to argue, but to me it entirely depends on where your camp is. I'm sure your situation is different than this:

As I wrote in an earlier post, I've run into guys who camp at the mouth of a gulch up the road from my house who seem to think that as long as they are camped there it is their gulch. And yes, for me to hunt it requires me parking right next to their camp. I could give a chit less if they spend days cutting trail into that area. I'm not going to not hunt that gulch for a week or longer, and I'm not going to go wake em up when I pull in before they've even got their boots on from bed to talk to them.

I'll fully admit I have far less sympathy for camps than I do for guys who got there that morning. I feel like I am very cognizant of other hunters when hunting, and almost always defer to the other guy, but there is no "holding your spot" in the mountains. I wouldn't doubt if I saw the situation you are referencing personally I may feel different.

 

[Nameless Range]

Just read your recent post. Makes sense.

 

[BuzzH]

In a different thread I attached pics of guys doing exactly what Buzz spoke of - camping, dogs and all, a few yards from my wall tent.
They were indeed dumb asses. Rude, inconsiderate, clueless, as greenhorn likes - douches. I would have loved to puff out my 6'3" 230 lb chest and chew' em a new butthole.
I was there to hunt with my dog, smell the smells, see the sights, and do what I enjoy more than anything in the world. Say I kick some verbal ass, they tell me to pound sand, I get even more pissed and it escalates. Hell, I might be the one gets thumped - there's always a tougher dog in a different pack........
Rather have the memories of my girl on rock solid point, coming back to me with a rooster in her lips, and seeing the sunset over the central Montana prairie, than the bitter taste of a pissing match or worse - as I too grew up when men were men, and had my share of tough guy moments. I guess I grew up and would rather enjoy life.
Ethics or whatever - some other dumb ass isn't worth tainting memories afield.

If you never say anything, then that behavior becomes acceptable and idiots never learn. I have never been one to suffer rude behavior or fools...perhaps another bad genetic flaw passed on from both my paternal and maternal Grandfathers.

 

[belly-deep]

I have never been one to suffer rude behavior or fools...

Cap'n Call? Is that you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLAY15lB4I4

 

[BuzzH]

Just read your recent post. Makes sense.

Nameless, there are other ways to hunt the exact same place I do, lots of other places to park, and I don't begrudge anyone doing that. A few people do, no problem.

I also agree with your assessment in your post, camping in a pinch point where that's the only access into a lot of country...I wouldn't expect people to stay out. My situation is not even close.

 

[onpoint]

I miss the days when I believed I had the power to educate idiots.
Keep up the good work Buzz

 

[BuzzH]

I miss the days when I believed I had the power to educate idiots.
Keep up the good work Buzz

That's funny...and I agree.

I did educate a guy fishing salmon on the Clearwater one day and never said a word. He edged in about 10 feet from me and proudly proclaimed that "this is a public river and I'm going to fish right here". I guess he must have been poor at math, since being 10 feet from someone casting a 10' steelhead rod, isn't going to work real well.

I never said a word and didn't bother to look behind me when casting a 2/0 salmon hook behind a couple ounces of pencil lead either.

Apparently that 2/0 owner hook whizzing by his face changed his mind about his theory on public rivers....

He picked up and moved after about my 3rd or 4th cast, which I can only assume, proved he was a slow learner. I would have moved after the first cast.

 

[onpoint]

I experienced that transformative experience somewhere around my 52'nd birthday - you may or may not be quite there yet.

 

[BuzzH]

I experienced that transformative experience somewhere around my 52'nd birthday - you may or may not be quite there yet.

Not quite, but getting real, real close.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Sometimes if people just aren't dicks to each other it works out, couple years back I had backpacked in 4 miles and found this great little flat spot you could glass from, it was decently small and there was lots of blow down so this was kinda 'the' spot. I scouted Weds, Thurs, Friday and found elk, Friday night about 2 hours before dark 4 hunters (older individuals) and their 2 buddies who were just packing them in showed up. We all just kinda looked at each other for a second, they explained they had been coming to that spot for years, I explained I had been camped there for 3 days. We all kinda decided not to be Jerks and shared the spot, a campfire, stories, the next day I killed a bull they shot some cows everything worked out. Since then I have shared camps with other people a couple of times in the back-country and each time it was a good experience.

There are lots of Jerks out there but there are also loads of great people.