Proposal to extent MT 2023 Upland Bird Season to end of January...please comment by Jan 21.

Currently 3 degrees 75% humidity and wind gusts to 45mph. Tonight -20 for the low with a 15-25mph wind. Tomorrow’s high is -11 with tomorrow’s low being -24. Can’t wait to be hunting birds in this next year!!!

#montanasendlessopportunities

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The Region 7 Zoom meeting is tonight from 6-8. I know at least one commissioner will be on the call. Would be great to have some reasonable voices on there.
 
I briefly tuned in about half way through the session. Very poor setup. I could barely hear what was being said. Questions put forth were not audible or repeated for on line listeners. Moderator started mumbling something about landowners' herd and happy balance. Blah, blah, blah. I thought this was supposed to be about pheasant season extension. It was a waste of time so I dropped out.
 
OntarioHunter said:
I briefly tuned in about half way through the session. Very poor setup. I could barely hear what was being said. Questions put forth were not audible or repeated for on line listeners. Moderator started mumbling something about landowners' herd and happy balance. Blah, blah, blah. I thought this was supposed to be about pheasant season extension. It was a waste of time so I dropped out.
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You quit too soon. I caught the last half hour and they talked about upland birds for the last portion.

Some very good questions were asked about whether the season extension would have a negative effect on populations.

The (I assume)biologists’s response indicated there was the potential for reduced populations with increased hunting and lack of cover from drought and bad weather.

I didn’t get the feeling that Region 7 FWP personnel were huge fans of the directors proposals and the upland bird season extension.
 
Gerald Martin said:
You quit too soon. I caught the last half hour and they talked about upland birds for the last portion.

Some very good questions were asked about whether the season extension would have a negative effect on populations.

The (I assume)biologists’s response indicated there was the potential for reduced populations with increased hunting and lack of cover from drought and bad weather.

I didn’t get the feeling that Region 7 FWP personnel were huge fans of the directors proposals and the upland bird season extension.
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So is what you are saying is we will be hunting birds into January next year?
 
Gerald Martin said:
You quit too soon. I caught the last half hour and they talked about upland birds for the last portion.

Some very good questions were asked about whether the season extension would have a negative effect on populations.

The (I assume)biologists’s response indicated there was the potential for reduced populations with increased hunting and lack of cover from drought and bad weather.

I didn’t get the feeling that Region 7 FWP personnel were huge fans of the directors proposals and the upland bird season extension.
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The elk portion was similar, not one person was happy with the proposals. All but one was verbally upset about trying to manage on the wildly outdated elk objectives. Liz McFarland, a Regional CAC Member was upset that the proposal seemed to pit public hunters vs private landowners and that it is insane to make these large scale changes directly before a new management plan. McFarland also talked about all the elk problems that the Director references but that the data doesn't support that with only 2 or 3 depredation complaints in all of Region 7 over the last 5 years. One large landowner that stated he managed a ranch of 100,000+ acres and he absolutely didn't feel like there were too many elk.

I asked the biologists if they thought giving everyone and their dog a cow tag would have a negative effect on the 30-40 bulls: 100 Cows that the 2005 Management Plan also calls for considering we're already on the very low end of that. They stated that this proposal came from Helena and that the reason they didn't make any large changes initially was because of that fear.

I think Paul Ellis was pissed because it didn't include 700 and that it wouldn't let enough NR's kill elk. I couldn't make out most of it, I just kept hearing fart noises through my speaker.

Commissioner Lane was in attendance.
 
I was at the meeting. I think a lot of the questions and comments really appeared to hit home with commissioner lane. The meeting was very well run for an in person attendance but I could see how the zoom part would have really sucked. I left the meeting with a good feeling that Bill is going to do the best he can with the ball of poop worsech dished out especially regarding elk. For upland birds that one is pretty simple. My dad who has been a lifelong rancher and is 73 when told about the upland bird proposal he said “well that’s the stupidest thing I have ever heard”😂😂. I plan to help him submit a comment. The fact is though there are 6 other commissioners and untangling all the bs that is lumped together is going to be tough.
 
I was told the model works well in SD and surrounding states. I responded early this morning....50/50 odds on proper tact. Even thanked Robinson for attending.
 
Wild Bill said:
The upland biologists that I have spoken with in SD feel that the January extension makes a miniscule impact on next years population. I believe them. I hunted all 4 weekends in January last year and a few week days in between, exclusively on public land and had some very good hunting. I rarely saw other hunters in the field. I'm not saying I'm some tough SOB but I don't think there are many guys that want to go out and hike a few miles in 10 degrees and 20 mph winds. Overall, I don't think it will make a significant negative impact of populations.
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I couldn’t care less about the cold and the wind, it’s trudging through snow drifts over my head and busting cattails all day that I don’t look forward too.
 
Brittany Chukarman said:
Our upland season for quail, chukar and huns in E. Oregon runs through January. There's parties that wait until heavy snow so they can shoot from the road. To make it through the night these birds depend on the warmth of the covey huddle. Every chukar hunter has come across a huge pile of droppings where they spent the night. When they get broken up late in the day I wonder how many make it. It's not unusual to find dead singles in the snow that appear to have just died from exposure. These sports also have no qualms about shooting into coveys on the ground crippling more than they kill. The bad winter of 16/17 some of us called ODFW to close the season. They said the birds would die anyway so let the hunters kill them. Obviously they won't all die and the more left over the quicker they recover to my way of thinking. Starving, hatchet-breasted birds aren't fit to eat anyway.
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That was a horrific winter kill year. I was also told they’re dead anyway.
 
Gerald Martin said:
You quit too soon. I caught the last half hour and they talked about upland birds for the last portion.

Some very good questions were asked about whether the season extension would have a negative effect on populations.

The (I assume)biologists’s response indicated there was the potential for reduced populations with increased hunting and lack of cover from drought and bad weather.

I didn’t get the feeling that Region 7 FWP personnel were huge fans of the directors proposals and the upland bird season extension.
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I also got the impression FWP biologists are not fans of the politics involved.

They did make the point that public input with detailed reasoning is really only accepted as written comment through the website as they do not want to misinterpret verbal comments at public meetings.
 
I don't understand the logic in this proposal. Clearly, extending the season won't put any more money in the bank for FWP. Sure, it may give some guys who devote Oct and Nov to big game a chance to switch back to hunting uplands once big game season closes. But have you ever heard of a big game hunter who didn't buy an upland license when he picked up his deer tag? And I can't imagine any nonresidents will travel to Montana for uplands in January. Roads are bad and weather is typically awful. Montana is no upland mecca like South Dakota. It never will be either. I have been hunting pheasants in Montana for fifty years. Even in the best of times the numbers were never great. And I haven't seen "the best of times" for more than ten years. The last five years have become progressively worse to the point that this past season was pretty much hopeless. I did okay but only because I hunted the federal refuge and hunted it HARD (like seven miles per bird hard). At least there was some cover left there. And of course my exceptional Lab made a huge difference. Other guys who showed up with pointing dogs were wasting their time this year. Very frustrating for them. I ran into several out of staters who made it clear they're not coming back again. Hunting private land was really hopeless and I spread a very wide net too. I know these places well enough to tell if they are getting hunted hard. They weren't this year and still no birds. How the f*&<ng hell is extending the season supposed to fix this picture? Are these idiot commissioners that far out of touch with reality? I mean I don't even live there any more and I'm more on the ball. Obviously they don't give a damn about the resource, just making more $$$ for outfitters.

Getting into the pheasant stocking game is totally a waste of money. I've talked to FWP biologists in past years and they acknowledge 80% of the stocked birds don't last two weeks in the wild. It's why they dump them a couple days before the season opens. And where will they be dumped? I guess we can connect the dots with this landed gentry administration to answer that question.

At this point things are so bad FWP should be considering shortening the season, not lengthening it. I know two landowners who have shut down upland hunting altogether on their block management properties. Surprised there aren't more doing the same.
 
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Greenhorn said:
No comments on the BB guns for turkeys and grouse ?? 🤣
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If pheasants were added to that I’d go after my yard pheasants in town. They enjoy tormenting the dogs and they think they’re invincible. I’m not too proud for that.
 
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