Proposal to eliminate non-resident sheep tags in New Mexico

[hossblur]

I am worried with the fact that all the states are trying to edge out more and more opportunities for nr, because then when the anti hunters come to attach and nr have nothing to loose or gain how much effort will be given toward that state? And as hunters we need all the help we can get to try and protect our sport.

That's been the loud shiny and sadly increasingly truth behind some "conservation". The "what do I get in return" attitude.

We see it in Feb in SLC. Tons of "conservationists" for which the annual big dick contest gets sold as "conservation". Without those tags, 90% of those modern day TR, would be on the golf course. Sure their money gets used, but so does the wildlife.

That is the opposite of the "we are all in the same boat" line isn't it.

They only care, if it benefits them personally, not because they care about the resource.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Agreed. "Complete" is probably too strong of a word. "Increasing" would probably be better. Regardless, it doesn't change my point that treating other hunters with contempt when discussing these issues will most likely result in negative consequences for all involved.

I mostly agree with your points.

I think the vast majority of hunters are so unaware of the nuances of non-resident hunting, how state game agencies work, funding, even how seasons/quotas are set, etc. that they just hang on to one or two things they do know:
1)Their opportunity for quality hunts is decreasing
2)What are you (my state agency) going to do about it?

That's ignorance, not animosity. Maybe the result is the same, but you can see how residents in neither one of those camps (neither ignorant or animus-filled) get annoyed when it all gets lumped together. When a kid won't quit whining about something it doesn't make you want to see their side the fifth time they cry a river. It kinda makes you want to say "forget it, figure it out on your own" and go on with your day. I don't know if animosity is growing; I think the pie is not getting bigger, it's not going to get bigger for most desirable hunts at a regional scale, and feelings get involved.

@NoWiser's view I get 100%. I'd be less likely to get involved too, maybe change how I spend my hunting dollars.

That is a big step removed from some of the ridiculous things that I have read on forums the last few years from people that I perceive are representative of the hunting community. To paraphrase:
"If I can't hunt XYZ, why should I care about the wildlife and wild places there?"
"If I can't hunt XYZ, I hope they get sued"
"Just wait until the federal government takes control of the wildlife resource"

If that's representative of someone's reasoning, I'd probably pass on having that type rhetoric on my team when anti-hunting agendas come calling. Maybe that's foolish, time will likely tell.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

90-10 is a fair split...

My preferred narrative is that we, Americans, are stewards of Wildlife for those currently alive and for future generations of Americans. I'm not really interested in the "I'm a __ and therefore deserve _________".

In Alaska, we are talking about only local residents rather than state residents being allowed to hunt large swaths of the state.

Post in thread 'Closure of Caribou and Moose hunting in NW Alaska - again...'
https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/cl...unting-in-nw-alaska-again.310049/post-3360248

The thread we are currently posting on is about dropping all NR for a hunting a species in NM.

While I agree that allocation should favor residents and would agree something in the 80/20 to 90/10 range is fair, recent events have shown this isn't a slippery slope fallacy shutting down hunting to everyone but your buddies is literally the goal and what is currently being proposed.

And holy smokes sure seems like carving out access is the only thing on folks minds lately... you brought up the pronghorn... yeah why is that not a thread, why aren't WY residents on HT talking about that? Why do we only have WY dudes like Shaul joining just to bitch about too many NR? Maybe I missed a thread but I don't remember him taking about any actual conservation issues?

It's not just Residents, @Big Fin has had a number of great podcasts recently about the Montana proposals, lots of those measures are land holding NR trying to shutdown local DIY folks.

Additionally, while locals do participate in the lions share of the conservation boots on the the ground work, and while states do manage the wildlife in trust for their citizens, there are caveats. Wolves and Grizz, those are managed currently at the federal level, we need broad national support to if we want management given back to the states. The AK local subsistence measure, those proposals are being heard by the federal government rather than the state, land transfer proposals, the LWCF... etc. There are lots of things that dudes in Massachusetts or Ohio, or Florida vote on that have huge consequences on federal lands, that vast majority of which are in the west.

Point being we need to stand together, and some folks are just going to be greedy... seems like we should call it out when we see it regardless of which group it's benefiting.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

That is a big step removed from some of the ridiculous things that I have read on forums the last few years from people that I perceive are representative of the hunting community. To paraphrase:
"If I can't hunt XYZ, why should I care about the wildlife and wild places there?"
"If I can't hunt XYZ, I hope they get sued"
"Just wait until the federal government takes control of the wildlife resource"

If that's representative of someone's reasoning, I'd probably pass on having that type rhetoric on my team when anti-hunting agendas come calling. Maybe that's foolish, time will likely tell.

Agreed.

We should all advocate for fair allocation of the resources. We shouldn't hold good conservation hostage in order to increase our own opportunity.

 

[SummitsCalling]

Where's your concern about 35k less pronghorn tags?

Or the shit seasons being proposed on mule deer in Wyoming?

Don't worry....we got it.

You don't want NR help, why would anyone help? Seems WY is doing a bang up job already with Moose and now pronghorn

 

[schmalts]

Right, but they live there and contribute time, attend meetings, etc.

They don't swirl in with $3k, once in their life, and pretend they saved wild sheep and did new Mexico residents a favor.

You really think the large majority of people that draw a sheep tag attend meetings and contribute time? I would bet you not. Hell I know of a res in NM that drew a primo tag 2 years ago and never hunted.. cuz he was too out of shape to hike up there.

 

[BuzzH]

You don't want NR help, why would anyone help? Seems WY is doing a bang up job already with Moose and now pronghorn

You know what drives 90-10 the quickest?

Less tags and less animals.

I'll have the last laugh...and that's unfortunate.

 

[SummitsCalling]

You know what drives 90-10 the quickest?

Less tags and less animals.

I'll have the last laugh...and that's unfortunate.

You wanting another ram or WY mismanaging wildlife?

 

[BuzzH]

You wanting another ram or WY mismanaging wildlife?

I made the suggestion and testified at the WTF in favor of making the big 5 OIL and making it apply to anyone on the 5 year waiting period.

I'll give you 3 guesses who falls under the OIL under the waiting period language.

Last post to you troll...carry on with your BS with someone else and find a clue, if you can.

Oh, and because you seem so worried about the ram(s) I've shot:

 

[HONEYBADGER]

Meh I could care less what New Mexico does. So few tags are issued there to regular people via the draw its doesn't really matter. Everything is chopped up into outfitter allocations, ranches get unlimited tags for antelope blah blah. Just move the Texas border west and eliminate New Mexico, make it part of Texas. Problem solved.

 

[TLowell02]

Meh I could care less what New Mexico does. So few tags are issued there to regular people via the draw its doesn't really matter. Everything is chopped up into outfitter allocations, ranches get unlimited tags for antelope blah blah. Just move the Texas border west and eliminate New Mexico, make it part of Texas. Problem solved.

Thanks but no thanks. If you think NM has a terrible draw system then you will love Texas' never-draw system.

 

[schmalts]

Easy political win while they continue to whore out 50% of their bull elk to nonresidents.

No they don't. The whore them out to landowners, not nonresidents. A resident that wants to buy those has more opportunity than a nonresident because they have easier access to get a hold of those who have the tags, but they choose no not value that opportunity as much as a no resident.

 

[LopeHunter]

Rough pencil math assuming outfitter application submissions are solely NR, NM residents could completely negate NR application fees + tag revenue with an increase of R app fees by ~$14.

Won't help the odds with 7700+ R applying but will make people feel warm and fuzzy.

However I doubt any non profits will want to start throwing money at sheep restoration without NR opportunities, guess we will find out.

The end result of this tribalism is mutual aid for fighting fires, sending in hay for livestock during droughts, funding charities when a natural disaster and other selfless acts gets throttled a bit if you are on the other side of my state line. If a state tells me I am not wanted for your hunting season as you need to cherish every last primo tag for your tax-paying residents then my take is my state should cherish every tanker plane and bales of hay and spare $20 bill laying around for use only inside our state. Sharing water that passes though my state before enters another state needs to be reviewed. Electricity generated in my state should stay here. Kick out all the NR med school students, under grads, and trade school attendees and union apprentices. My tax dollars built those programs, not yours. Let's ignore the federal dollars since is all about the state.

Wyoming has one medical school and is affiliated with University of Washington so bummer when that gets cut off from accreditation. Not even sure if my state should respond if a vehicle has a wreck while sporting out of state plates. Maybe the ER should refuse service since my tax dollars support the infrastructure around that hospital. Certainly the roadside bathrooms need to be reserved for my residents. My tribe, good. Your tribe, not my tribe so go away, stay home.

After I apply for sheep in a state, I figure the junk fees are the only extra cost to chase all the other species. No sheep tag, no application from me. As NR sheep tag opportunities dwindle, I will divert big game donations to National Wild Turkey Federation as I can go see and hunt the results of my generosity in several states each year. I got my money's worth so not crying about the bonus and preference points I built that are devalued.

 

[shootbrownelk]

You have obviously never gone to one of these meetings or sat on the committee so have a great week.

How's Wisconsin's wolf hunt going? The commission sure took input from the public on that, before they shut it down didn't they.

 

[WIbiggame]

How's Wisconsin's wolf hunt going? The commission sure took input from the public on that, before they shut it down didn't they.

Not sure on a couple things 1) When this turned into a wolf thread? And 2) Why I am even wasting this beautiful day responding to your ignorance.

But here I am, WI DNR did implement a wolf hunt and it was shut down on state court level and then a federal level so try again have a good weekend.

Please educate yourself: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/wolf/index.html

 

[Khunter]

Not having nr access to another states 50 sheep tags is not putting the NAM on life support....if only obviously.

You want to see what is, attend the sheep show in Reno.

AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY. Think I am one and done with that event.

 

[BlazerBeam]

In addition, I have stated before that every hunter in the nation has the option to move to states that give them more resident hunting opportunity. I moved from ND to AK and then to CO for more and better hunting opportunities. I know MANY other hunters who have done the same.

yep. and this is a problem. And anyone who thinks that people are not moving to western states specifically for hunting opportunity is a fool.

 

[BlazerBeam]

They illustrate how much demand our society has put on the landscapes and what amount of opportunity the shrinking game numbers can provide.

I have seen shrinking opportunity happening since I started hunting multiple states. I see it in my home state.

Just wondering what role you and fellas in your same "line of work" feel that you have played in this happening.....

 

[brownbear932008]

yep. and this is a problem. And anyone who thinks that people are not moving to western states specifically for hunting opportunity is a fool.

No doubt how many threads have been here on HT in the last 2-3 years.?

 

[Johnny Bravo]

First off new Mexico can do what it wants and with 50 total tags I don't blame them for wanting them all going to residents.

Most likely their residents are the people volunteering their time to install guzzlers, etc to improve sheep numbers there. The only significant money provided by NR is some fat wallet guy buying a governor's tag. A grand or three an average nr spends is insignificant money in the sheep management world.

Finally, yes I think it would be more beneficial for resident hunters to spend their time, money and effort improving hunting in the states they reside in.

This apply all over hells half acre is a recent trend. Many of the people I grew up hunting with never hunted anywhere as nrs. Those that did so maybe hunted a neighboring state they shared a border with.

Getting back to the basics of taking care of your resident opportunities, wildlife, access, is a good thing.

Worrying about being a nr in other states is exhausting...

I totally agree.....everyone should quit buying points in all the western states and start using the points they have for all species just to see what happens. I would really be interested to see what happens when the game and fish loose all those monies and the local businesses no longer have all of the out of state money....would for sure be interesting.