huntlife
New member
Ohhhh, ok. Now it makes more since. Thanks!!
Probably a stupid question; Cornerhopping literally!
- Thread starter fargoflyfish
- Start date
Ohhhh, ok. Now it makes more since. Thanks!!
Mthuntinfool
Member
No it is not, because you are in the private landowners "airspace". your only option would be to get permission from the landowners to access the property.
mtmander
Active member
There was a proposal (last year i think) that would permit crossing a corner (kittycorner) to gain access to public land. This bill was voted down.
fargoflyfish
Member
It really seems like an odd law.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
The "corner crossing" bill introduced during the 2013 Montana legislative session, tabled in committee, then was brought to the House floor for a vote to "blast" it out of committee for a full hearing on the Floor of the House. Although there were several hundred of us sportsmen and women as well as other proponents of the bill, all in the galleria and hallways wearing hunter orange, the bill "blast-out" did not garner enough votes and died.
Shortly thereafter, we all gathered outside the Capitol building for a rally and corner crossing bill wake.
Bingo!!!
I cannot cross from my property to the BLM on my SW corner(4properties/4fences) without my neighbors next to me,written permission.
Cornermarker is 1",fence post/corner is RR tie.I can cross without setting foot on their land,but I would still be going thru their land. Your body is way bigger than corner marker,and a fence ladder diagonally over is on their land/space too.
I have permission here,next to me, but this is very common where I am in NM.
It is literally checkerboarded here by section. And most of these ranchers will not allow it and will not hesitate to move gates and lock them or anything else.
I have gotten very good at finding crossing points,but most are on foot,no legal vehicle access.I also call them on the illegal closures and have so far prevailed.
Surveys & GPS don't lie. Fences are often NOT on accurate property lines . xmaps on my Garmin is like GOLD.....
Same with a trip to county clerk/recorder.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
Anyone claiming the airspace argument, or that corner crossing is illegal...care to cite the statute(s)?
IMO, its still a legal gray area and most states/counties are not prosecuting it and wardens are not issuing citations for it.
IMO, its still a legal gray area and most states/counties are not prosecuting it and wardens are not issuing citations for it.
The MCA in Montana does not specifically address it. If I recall, it is written in an opinion from the AG's office that corner hopping constitutes trespass.
Has enforcement of it changed in WY since the court case there? Wasn't that about 10-11 years ago I guy was cited, and won?
BuzzH
Well-known member
There never has been enforcement of it here by wardens that I'm aware of.
The case that was won in Albany County was a trespass ticket issued by a Sheriff, IIRC, Judge Robert Castor threw it out.
There is no statute that I'm aware of in MT or WY that makes corner crossing illegal...also no statute to make it legal either.
The case that was won in Albany County was a trespass ticket issued by a Sheriff, IIRC, Judge Robert Castor threw it out.
There is no statute that I'm aware of in MT or WY that makes corner crossing illegal...also no statute to make it legal either.
D
Deleted member 16014
Guest
The best part is that the next video on the Kuiu youtube channel is an extreeeeeme C-A ranch hunt.
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I saw that too. Found it kind of funny.
Blitzkrieg
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Corner hopping
I asked the wardens about 10 years ago about vaulting over the corner. I was told I would still be sited BUT never loose in court. If you could find the exact corner you have a valid fight. It is garbage PUBLIC lands can essentially be locked up by imaginary ownership of air space on the corners.
I asked the wardens about 10 years ago about vaulting over the corner. I was told I would still be sited BUT never loose in court. If you could find the exact corner you have a valid fight. It is garbage PUBLIC lands can essentially be locked up by imaginary ownership of air space on the corners.
I find this interesting too. All those airplanes that fly over the state must have written permission from all the land owners then, eh?
Blitzkrieg
New member
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The question I asked the wardens in MT was " how high did I have to get over the corner" in which I did not get an answer. Only I would be sited but not loose in court. I have never come across "how high" this imaginary air space is defined. Plains fly over my house and are in MY air space all the time. ALSO, Just because a fence meets at the corner does not mean that is where the legal corner is. In MT I have found the fences off the legal marked corners which muddies the water even more. It is different for all states, so anyone willing to risk this needs to be careful. Landowners believe these public lands are under their ownership.
Air space is public domaine and different issue.
I was referring to old fashioned climbing over the intersection of fences.
Some folks I guess can do a standing broadjump with gear and meat and clear a barbed wire fence.Maybe do a backflip too for all I know.
I do know I've been told this by 3 different states wardens and by many local LEO's. I could and would be cited and could or might win.......to me it's not worth that risk.
I do know my place's corners are,there is a recorded survey.
I was referring to old fashioned climbing over the intersection of fences.
Some folks I guess can do a standing broadjump with gear and meat and clear a barbed wire fence.Maybe do a backflip too for all I know.
I do know I've been told this by 3 different states wardens and by many local LEO's. I could and would be cited and could or might win.......to me it's not worth that risk.
I do know my place's corners are,there is a recorded survey.
James Riley
Banned
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I think the FAA would have AGL (above ground level) regulations as to what was in their jurisdiction. If you are in that, the land owner can go pound sand.
I was a Recon Team Leader in the Marines and we used to SPIE Rig (Special Patrol Insertion Extraction) where you could get like 10 or 12 guys snap-linked into a rope which hung below the chopper. It was for going into tight spots, triple canopy jungle, etc. The chopper never landed (the rope was about 120' long so it was far from the ground). You got on and off the rope on your own. I don't see why, if you had the money, a chopper couldn't fly in public air space over the land, drop down while you got off the rope, you hunt, then get picked up and extracted the same way. Don't hunt for the day or whatever that the local law prohibits after being in the air and what's the harm? You just want to make sure, while staying in public air space, that you fly right over the offending land owner's ranch house at zero dark thirty for your insert/extract.
P.S. Your pilot would need, I think, a Part 133 certificate for Class D loads.
I was a Recon Team Leader in the Marines and we used to SPIE Rig (Special Patrol Insertion Extraction) where you could get like 10 or 12 guys snap-linked into a rope which hung below the chopper. It was for going into tight spots, triple canopy jungle, etc. The chopper never landed (the rope was about 120' long so it was far from the ground). You got on and off the rope on your own. I don't see why, if you had the money, a chopper couldn't fly in public air space over the land, drop down while you got off the rope, you hunt, then get picked up and extracted the same way. Don't hunt for the day or whatever that the local law prohibits after being in the air and what's the harm? You just want to make sure, while staying in public air space, that you fly right over the offending land owner's ranch house at zero dark thirty for your insert/extract.
P.S. Your pilot would need, I think, a Part 133 certificate for Class D loads.
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Mthuntinfool
Member
There has been some issued in Mt, my dad and I were unaware of the rule, and some landowner saw us and had the warden issue a ticket. I have also heard of this happening several other times in the state.
Curly
Member
I know corner crossing is legal in WA state. I heard MT is sticklers about it and WY is like Buzz said.
If you tried it out here in NM were I am, a stranger in area, not knowing landowner,no permission,is looking to get shot at.' Ticket is inconvienience compared.
Just the way it is in old west.
I'm warry and armed...also NMG&F & LEO's on speed dial helps...............and not pushing it when my hairs stand up.
Just the way it is in old west.
I'm warry and armed...also NMG&F & LEO's on speed dial helps...............and not pushing it when my hairs stand up.
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ihuntelk
Member
I know a guy in Wyoming that had his attorney look into it for crossing over the snow. His claim was that the State of Wyoming owned the 'water' and you can access navigable waters. He thought that if he crossed on top of the snow and never touched the ground/vegetation that he might get away with it. Pretty sure there was a hole in his bucket but I definitely liked his thinking......................
-Cade
-Cade
