Poor penetration.

[Jofes]

I have a short draw 26.5, I shoot around 65 lbls. I've been shooting Easton axis with a 75 gr brass insert and a sever 1.75 100 gr.

My issue is having poor penetration or no pass through on whitetail, am I too slow for a mechanical or is there something else I need to be looking at? I feel very confident in shot placement but haven't had the arrows blow through anything with the heavier weight.
Any thoughts?

 

[winmag]

You can go to a cut on contact style broadhead. All mechanical broadheads use a portion of your kinetic energy to open the broadhead instead of penetrate. And 1.75" diameter is a pretty large hole to attempt to punch through anything.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I may not be the norm, but I enjoy my 4-blade muzzy staying inside of the cage whenever possible.

I don't mind a passthrough but when it stays inside the cage and starts "churning" things die.

 

[GrantK]

Tuning on point? that is where I'd start, I'd expect that combo to be pass-throughs most of the time, that said of all the heads I've shot Sevr's seem to be very prone to deflections and trouble with penetration, the pivoting blades seem like a great idea in theory but IME they cause some really strange problems... as much as I've tried to get away from Rages I keep going back because they just keep working...

 

[Jofes]

Tuning on point? that is where I'd start, I'd expect that combo to be pass-throughs most of the time, that said of all the heads I've shot Sevr's seem to be very prone to deflections and trouble with penetration, the pivoting blades seem like a great idea in theory but IME they cause some really strange problems... as much as I've tried to get away from Rages I keep going back because they just keep working...

Paper tuned so I'm not sure that's it. I hadn't thought of the broad head causing pivoting.

 

[GrantK]

Paper tuned so I'm not sure that's it. I hadn't thought of the broad head causing pivoting.

paper can be misleading, you can tune to a bullet hole at a certain distance and still be pretty far from perfect arrow flight, if you haven't already I'd verify with a bare shaft, if you are at the same point of impact at 20 with a bare shaft, fletched field point, and broadhead that confirms tuning isn't the issue... if you are shooting short arrows with that much weight up front spine might be an issue that's hard to see with paper tuning.
That said if tuning is perfect then broadhead is the next obvious link in the chain, the last elk I shot with a Sevr was a broadside hit just behind the shoulder that exited the chin... no issue with the blood trail on that one but also not really what I'm trying to repeat...

 

[glass eye]

If you want pass through stay away from mechanicals. I use both but I know I won't get a pass through with mechanicals but with the gaping wound it makes a blood trail is not a problem.

 

[BuckRut]

What kind of speed you getting out of that setup? Short draw length with that draw weight and a mechanical it doesn't surprise me at all that you are getting poor penetration.

 

[seeth07]

I have never understood why some arrows blast through an animal and some don't. For what it is worth to this discussion, here was my wife's setup on the bull she arrowed last year at 45 yards. I'm bringing this info forward because everyone we talked to just couldn't believe what she was shooting going elk hunting. Yet, her arrow went basically right through the animal (elk was found dead with the arrow still fully intact with only the fletching still keeping it in the animal in the exit wound. It was a high liver shot and busted through directly dead center on the last rib at entry. Point being, her setup was for sure heavy enough to punch through a rib cage of an elk. I've shot a cow elk at 10 yards with a much heavier setup and my arrow hit right before the shoulder (just barely nicking the shoulder blade) and it only went into the cow about 8" and fell out of the animal without breaking after only 50 feet.

Mathews Mission bow - IBO rating of 290 fps at 29"/70#. Her set draw weight was at 55#. 24.5" draw length.
Carbon express Maxima Hunter 250 arrows.
Montec 100 grain G5 broadheads (1" cutting diameter).

 

[Jofes]

What kind of speed you getting out of that setup? Short draw length with that draw weight and a mechanical it doesn't surprise me at all that you are getting poor penetration.

Not sure, I don't have a Chrono.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I agree with @GrantK. Paper tuning is just step one to get you in the ballpark. Bareshaft tuning and/or broadhead tuning tell you what your arrow is doing at distance. It's possible to get a bullet hole up close through paper and still have poor flight downrange with a broadhead.

If bareshaft/broadhead tuning looks good, try a smaller cutting diameter mechanical or a fixed blade head if you want to improve penetration.

 

[GrantK]

I have never understood why some arrows blast through an animal and some don't. For what it is worth to this discussion, here was my wife's setup on the bull she arrowed last year at 45 yards. I'm bringing this info forward because everyone we talked to just couldn't believe what she was shooting going elk hunting. Yet, her arrow went basically right through the animal (elk was found dead with the arrow still fully intact with only the fletching still keeping it in the animal in the exit wound. It was a high liver shot and busted through directly dead center on the last rib at entry. Point being, her setup was for sure heavy enough to punch through a rib cage of an elk. I've shot a cow elk at 10 yards with a much heavier setup and my arrow hit right before the shoulder (just barely nicking the shoulder blade) and it only went into the cow about 8" and fell out of the animal without breaking after only 50 feet.

Mathews Mission bow - IBO rating of 290 fps at 29"/70#. Her set draw weight was at 55#. 24.5" draw length.
Carbon express Maxima Hunter 250 arrows.
Montec 100 grain G5 broadheads (1" cutting diameter).

I've seen a lot of really close shots fail to penetrate well, even out of a perfectly tuned bow there is oscillation until the arrow stabilizes, if your arrow happens to impact while that is happening it is similar to a badly tuned bow in that a lot of the energy isn't behind the broadhead.

In my own experience, I'm maybe 40% on getting a pass through inside 15 yards, including a couple that barely got one lung, whereas I've had almost 100% pass-throughs beyond 30 yards, similar setup for close to 20 elk, 74# 29" draw, approx 450-grain arrow weight...

I've seen my wife's bow at 48# 27" draw blow completely through a broadside bull at 25 yards, including offside scapula, if the situation is right it doesn't take much...

 

[elevatorman]

Your arrows are likely too light is a big factor too. Ideally your arrow should be at least 425 for a hunting arrow. Closer to 450+ is better. The heavier it is, the better the penetration. Yes you give up a little speed, but it also quiets your bow some. My arrows are around 550 total with a 150 gr swhacker on the front.

As for mechanical heads, mechanical heads are not a generalized factor. What I mean is there are all the mechanicals that open before entry and take a ton of energy, and then there are swhackers. I'm not a big brand guy but swhackers are in their own class. They have a very unique design that punches a tiny entry hole (very little wasted energy), opens as passing through for fresh blades cutting and does give a full size exit hole. I've shot them for years and had nothing but pass throughs. Amazing performance and field points accuracy.

Also keep in mind thinner arrows penetrate better also. I'd bet if you had 450+ grain total weight arrows with 125 gr swhackers on the front you'd be getting pass throughs. Going to small diameter helps too. My carbon express arrows are small diameter but are still in the neighborhood of 10-11 gpi.

For what it's worth when I was younger I had a 60 pound bow using light arrows and 3 blade muzzys. NEVER got a pass through. Even shot one deer directly under my stand.

 

[Nick87]

Try a sharper broadhead.

 

[seeth07]

Try a sharper broadhead.

That is my cousins theory to why my wife had good penetration with her bull. They were brand new, never been shot (she had same ones using in deer and practicing) but we brought brand new for the trip as it was a cheap cost for extra insurance at the shot. The elk I shot at close range was the same broadhead I have sharpened many times after taking many deer and although it passed the rubber band test, it's still not out of the box sharp. I have taken this seriously after seeing the results of her shot and I just purchased three brand new broadheads for myself. My new rule is one broadhead per shot. The 12 bucks is worth it.

 

[Mallardsx2]

My wife shot this bull moose with minimal poundage allowed for moose in that specific province in Canada.

She shot it at 18 yards with a 4-blade muzzy 90 grain head. Shot the whole way through it with only the fletching's keeping the arrow from coming out the other side.

We did penetration tests prior to going on the moose hunt. These muzzy 4-blades penetrated the furthest out of a PILE of broadheads that we tested. I have used Muzzy's (or a version of them) for over 25 years, so it's what we stick with. They are affordable and good heads that hold up well.

They can take a bit of tuning but IMHO that 4th blade makes a big difference in performance. As long as I can find them on the shelves, we will shoot them (with brand new blades of course and yes, those muzzy blades are surgical ridiculously sharp....).