Points/ draw questions

[kraftjd]

Ok this is my first season hunting in Ohio and eventually I would like to hunt an elk within my lifetime. I've heard of points and draws but I'm lost on how all of this works. And I know states are different. If some of you could elaborate on this process and/or post links to other threads to this procedure this would be very appreciated.
Thank you and happy new year!
Jon

 

[rmyoung1]

Randy’s done a video explanation of the various western states. Easiest thing would be to watch those videos. They’re on his YouTube channel. Or you can find the link through www.randynewberg.com

Check out the ELK TALK series under the “Hunter Playlists.” Best of luck! It’s an addicting game.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Yep, either that or start doing a search on here, as there is way too much information to answer your question with a simple post on this thread.

 

[Millsworks]

You may also want to do a quick search of the dates that a non resident can apply for points or for a tag. They differ alot from state to state.
I believe Wyoming for instance has their non resident application period for elk in January. Good to know if you plan to apply for a hunt that is for this coming 2018 season.
You don't want to miss the dates to apply for points or a tag while you are busy researching info.

 

[JohnCushman]

You can come to Colorado and do archery and 2nd and 3rd rifle seasons on OTC tags in a good portion of the state. You can still get a point while doing the OTC tags.

 

[kraftjd]

Thank you everyone for the replies and advice. I'll start the searching now
Thanks
Jon

 

[kenton]

Welcome to the forum Jon, what part of Ohio are you from?

 

[kraftjd]

Welcome to the forum Jon, what part of Ohio are you from?

Southwest part Cincinnati area

 

[Millsworks]

I hope to deer hunt Wyoming in 2019. It will be a region F tag.
Maybe I can get you to follow me there as I leave from West Virginia.
That way I have someone to hold the light and hand me tools while I fix my vehicle after it breaks down , like it did last fall.

 

[CiK]

Southwest part Cincinnati area

Welcome, I am from Cincinnati too. Live in Southeast Indiana.

You can hunt Colorado and Idaho every year on Over The Counter tags and build points elsewhere. Wyoming will probably take 2.5-3 points this year to hunt General Tag units.

 

[kraftjd]

Welcome, I am from Cincinnati too. Live in Southeast Indiana.

You can hunt Colorado and Idaho every year on Over The Counter tags and build points elsewhere. Wyoming will probably take 2.5-3 points this year to hunt General Tag units.

I've started listening to elk talk and have rough ideas on this process. I'm still lost on the process of building points. What's the best way to do it?

 

[CiK]

I've started listening to elk talk and have rough ideas on this process. I'm still lost on the process of building points. What's the best way to do it?

Using Wyoming as an example, you can buy a PP for $50 each year and not hunt. You can build points year after year. Or you can put in for a really hard to get Limited Tag as your 1st choice and apply for an easier to get tag as your 2nd choice. If you are awarded that 2nd choice tag, you don't lose your points and you get to go hunting each year. A lot of hunters do this so they can hunt cows in the unit they want to hunt for a bull later on.

You can do the same point building in Colorado too or you can just go hunt in an Over The Counter (OTC) tag in Colorado or build points for a better unit to hunt in. Idaho has no PP, its a straight lottery draw. Idaho has OTC tags too though, and is a good place to go hunt bulls while you build points in other states. Shoot me a PM if you have any questions. Happy to help as much as I can.

 

[LopeHunter]

Depends on how much "ante" you are willing to toss onto the big game poker table each year and then spend on tags as you draw them. Is it a problem if you draw more than one tag a year out West?

OTC in CO and ID is the simple approach as you only get a tag when you plan to get that tag.

If you apply for tags then you might draw every tag or no tags. Are you looking for a representative animal or a 1 in 1000 buck or bull? Do you need a guide? Willing to pay to get on private land or prefer to take on the challenge of public land? Will you be content if harvest rates are 1 in 10 or do you want a hunt where is over 1 in 2 odds? Sleep in a motel at night with a hot shower or perhaps backpack in for a few days?

The challenge with the applications out West is you do not always have results from a state where you applied before you would need to apply to the next state in the sequence.

If you apply for 10 years building points in WY, MT and CO then after about 5 of those years you will have enough points to confidently select a unit that you could have drawn the prior year with your point total then so should be able to draw this year if apply. If hold out building points for a decade then will have more options in those states though your cost per tag considering the tag cost and the years of applying to build points will be higher.

NV and UT are states where 10 years of points will not lock in a tag. You might get one. Hard to predict due to the nature of these point systems and the relatively small number of limited entry tags for NR.

NM does not use a point system so odds are low for NR and hard to predict which means it is very, very fair. People that say point systems reward people that apply unsuccessfully for years miss the point that they did get a reward for all those unsuccessful years...those applicants had a chance to draw. That is their reward. NM has NR elk tags that are 1 in 100s odds and some that are 1 in 10s. If you apply for a unit with 1 in 100s then you should never draw that tag in your lifetime. Points do not change that other than to be age discrimination against first-time older applicants and younger applicants. Older applicants since in CO if you want to draw a primo NR deer tag and start today that will take 40 years. A 60 year old applicant would be 100. A 15 year old applicant is 20 some points in the hole and you can't apply as a new born baby so the young are screwed over by an arbitrary start year for point systems that merely create a privileged "max point" pool that has great odds until are drawn while subsequent entrants have artificially reduced odds. There are only so many primo tags and point schemes merely anoint favorites while penalizing everyone after including their children and even themselves once they draw and are kicked to the back of the bus.

Here are states where I apply for elk and you can see how is impossible to not risk drawing more than one tag if aggressively apply for hunts rather than points.

State 2017 Due 2017 Results
WY 01/31 02/25
AZ 02/10 03/27
UT 03/04 05/23
NM 03/20 04/15
CO 04/02 06/01
NV 04/15 05/26

 

[ErictheRed]

Hi John - sounds like you're a first time hunter. Why did you decide to try hunting in Ohio? I enjoy learning how folks get into the sport. Thanks The Red.

 

[jrabq]

NM does not use a point system so odds are low for NR and hard to predict which means it is very, very fair. People that say point systems reward people that apply unsuccessfully for years miss the point that they did get a reward for all those unsuccessful years...those applicants had a chance to draw. That is their reward. NM has NR elk tags that are 1 in 100s odds and some that are 1 in 10s. If you apply for a unit with 1 in 100s then you should never draw that tag in your lifetime. Points do not change that other than to be age discrimination against first-time older applicants and younger applicants. Older applicants since in CO if you want to draw a primo NR deer tag and start today that will take 40 years. A 60 year old applicant would be 100. A 15 year old applicant is 20 some points in the hole and you can't apply as a new born baby so the young are screwed over by an arbitrary start year for point systems that merely create a privileged "max point" pool that has great odds until are drawn while subsequent entrants have artificially reduced odds. There are only so many primo tags and point schemes merely anoint favorites while penalizing everyone after including their children and even themselves once they draw and are kicked to the back of the bus.

I mostly agree with your sentiment. But there are some cases for "mid-tier" hunts where the required #points stabilizes at less than 10 or so, in which case a preference point system has some merits and is not terribly discriminatory towards younger folk. Problems arise when the demand/supply ratio gets too high. I'd still be happy if all the point schemes just went away, and I have a lot of money tied up in them. But the schemes are popular to a lot of hunters, and a lot of states have established a gravy train, so I'm guessing points are here to stay.

 

[kraftjd]

Guys thank you for the replies and information. I still have more to keep getting a better handle on this. I guess I should've stated that this is more of a 10 year plan, and if I can start building points now, I'd like to start now.

 

[kraftjd]

Hi John - sounds like you're a first time hunter. Why did you decide to try hunting in Ohio? I enjoy learning how folks get into the sport. Thanks The Red.

I listened to Randy talk about why he hunts in terms of where meat comes from. And I have people close to me who hunt and I've sat with them and I enjoyed what went on and the whole process of it. Truly connects you to nature and you're able to pass it onto the next generation.

 

[Four22]

Southwest part Cincinnati area

There’s a couple of us on here from Cincinnati area. I’m north of town in liberty township. Small world!!!

 

[CiK]

There’s a couple of us on here from Cincinnati area. I’m north of town in liberty township. Small world!!!

I work in Hamilton, right outside Liberty Township. Definitely a small world it seems.

Kraftjd,
You don't have to wait 10 years to hunt elk. You can hunt them next year. The opportunity is there........... but if you want to build points to hunt in a primo hunt location, then building points for 10 years is definitely doable. I will send you a PM.

Tony