I see your point, and I used to feel the same way. I guess I look at it now from the perspective of how many American jobs did my purchase support? I doubt our Honda and Toyota maximize the amount of benefit to American workers and shareholders, but they are certainly better than the three Dodge trucks I've owned previously that were made 100% in Mexico.
Pickup of the Future?
- Thread starter 3855WIN
- Start date
That's fine too.
Wildabeest
Well-known member
Not sure where you’re getting your info (perhaps Fox News?), but that’s the polar opposite of reality. The last stat I saw was that something like 85% of EV owners have no intention of switching back. And as for “more expensive”, yeah, I paid $100/yr surcharge when I lived in NC. And avoided $400/month in gas and regular maintenance. I could barely afford saving that much money!
You may want to get your facts straight before posting. If you don’t like EV’s, that’s fine, just say you don’t like them and never intend to own one. But making up shit to justify it makes no sense.
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Wildabeest
Well-known member
2022 Ford F-150 Electric: What We Know
Will the EV F-150 bear the name Everglades?
BigHornRam
Well-known member
With savings like that you must have been plugging into your neighbors house at night.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
@Wildabeast on a personal level I like the low maintenance, but have questions about long term reliability. How does a Tesla do 15 years in?
On the macro scale... power.
Wind and Solar are a pipe dream... sorry that's just a fact, there is no way your replacing petroleum level production with those.
According to the EIA ~3.63% of US power is from Solar and Wind, and 37% is petroleum of that 70% is transportation of that 53% is car fuel. So 13.727% of our total energy production goes into cars. I don't see a 5X on solar and wind happening.
Nuclear, possible.
So essentially we are just swapping lots of internal combustion engines with NG plants (coals dead folks).
In my mind the question then becomes efficiency. Is refining crude to burn in a car more or less efficient than using gas to power a turbine and then transmitting it to a charging station.
Conservation of energy wise internal combustion engines suck. Gas can be transported via pipes much more efficiently. Win there... but our electrical grid is pretty terrible so you lose energy on that side of the equation.
Natural gas is a lot better in terms of air quality than gasoline/diesel so there is that as well. Also the US has tremendous Gas plays, fairly close to urban areas.
Gas engines are way less raw material intensive. Mining/shipping/etc with those are a major issue.
It would be interesting for an economist to math this out.
Obviously you can put your finger on the scale with taxes and rebates to make anything "cost" more or less but at the end of the day you're paying the delta... as our favorite lawyer always says money is fungible.
On the macro scale... power.
Wind and Solar are a pipe dream... sorry that's just a fact, there is no way your replacing petroleum level production with those.
According to the EIA ~3.63% of US power is from Solar and Wind, and 37% is petroleum of that 70% is transportation of that 53% is car fuel. So 13.727% of our total energy production goes into cars. I don't see a 5X on solar and wind happening.
Nuclear, possible.
So essentially we are just swapping lots of internal combustion engines with NG plants (coals dead folks).
In my mind the question then becomes efficiency. Is refining crude to burn in a car more or less efficient than using gas to power a turbine and then transmitting it to a charging station.
Conservation of energy wise internal combustion engines suck. Gas can be transported via pipes much more efficiently. Win there... but our electrical grid is pretty terrible so you lose energy on that side of the equation.
Natural gas is a lot better in terms of air quality than gasoline/diesel so there is that as well. Also the US has tremendous Gas plays, fairly close to urban areas.
Gas engines are way less raw material intensive. Mining/shipping/etc with those are a major issue.
It would be interesting for an economist to math this out.
Obviously you can put your finger on the scale with taxes and rebates to make anything "cost" more or less but at the end of the day you're paying the delta... as our favorite lawyer always says money is fungible.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
With savings like that you must have been plugging into your neighbors house at night.
Price per kWh is brutal here in Boston.
My last bill was ~500kWh for $200 so assuming 25,000 miles = 8625 kWh tesla thread
$3450
My Corolla averages 32 mpg so 25,000/32 * $2.5 = $1953.125 +$225 oil changes.
$2178.12
At my house in Denver I paid $75 for 720kWh so $898.43
Electricity generation by source
Mass uses Natural Gas (67%) and Nuclear (<25%)
CO uses Coal (50% and Natural gas(33%)
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3855WIN
Well-known member
Sounds like Boston is just loads of fun.
Wildabeest
Well-known member
Super chargers are free. People who bought before 2017/18 get free unlimited super charging on the Tesla network - folks who bought after that have a cap on free charging and then pay per kWH after that. Lots of towns and businesses have free charging as well. My place of work in NC had free chargers in the parking lots. I’ve owned it for 5 years and have never paid a dime to charge it. Installed a 50 amp dryer plug in my garage so I could charge there, but never needed to use it. $20 in parts to do that, so I guess I should figure that into my ROI. The only regular maintenance is tires and windshield wiper fluid / blades. Brakes go well past 100,000 miles since you learn to use the regen feature to slow you vs. the brakes. Added benefit is it’s using that energy to recharge the batteries as it’s slowing the car.With savings like that you must have been plugging into your neighbors house at night.
Yeah, I’m a fan of EV’s
. There are downsides to the time it takes to charge if you are on a long road trip, as well as an inability to carry extra fuel for backcountry adventures and limited charging options the further you get off the beaten path. But for me, the benefits outweigh those inconveniences, and the technology improvements and massive build out of the charging networks make them less of an issue all the time. I think people should buy the car they want that they think will work best for their individual situation. I’m not trying to convince anyone to go EV. I just think those decisions should be made based on the facts vs. incorrect assumptions, thus my responses to clarify things based on first hand experience.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Tongue in cheek here but... great so I get to pay for the gas in your space car cause it’s “green”.Super chargers are free. People who bought before 2017/18 get free unlimited super charging on the Tesla network - folks who bought after that have a cap on free charging and then pay per kWH after that. Lots of towns and businesses have free charging as well. My place of work in NC had free chargers in the parking lots. I’ve owned it for 5 years and have never paid a dime to charge it. Installed a 50 amp dryer plug in my garage so I could charge there, but never needed to use it. $20 in parts to do that, so I guess I should figure that into my ROI. The only regular maintenance is tires and windshield wiper fluid / blades. Brakes go well past 100,000 miles since you learn to use the regen feature to slow you vs. the brakes. Added benefit is it’s using that energy to recharge the batteries as it’s slowing the car.
Yeah, I’m a fan of EV’s
Wildabeest
Well-known member
I’ve got no problem with that!
MO Betta
Well-known member
What's the current longevity on the batteries before replacement, 7 years still? Can't remember if diminishing capacity was discussed earlier.
Wildabeest
Well-known member
It’s mostly dependent on charge cycles, but Tesla has full warrantee on the battery to 70,000 miles. I’ve got 50,000 on mine and have seen no noticeable decline in battery performance. Saw a post this week where a guy had 200,000 miles on one.
I think mechanical dependability on EV’s will prove to be better than ICE vehicles. They are far simpler motors and drive trains and operate much cleaner internally. My concern on reliability is more around the electronics. These things are essentially computers with electric motors and wheels. Electronics/computer issues are must more difficult to diagnosis and fix, and tend to be expensive. I've only had one minor issue with mine that was repaired under warrantee. it I guess all cars are becoming more and more computerized, so this would also be a concern for ICE vehicles as well.
As for comparisons to the V8,
Dodge 1500 5.7l Hemi:
Rivian:
I think mechanical dependability on EV’s will prove to be better than ICE vehicles. They are far simpler motors and drive trains and operate much cleaner internally. My concern on reliability is more around the electronics. These things are essentially computers with electric motors and wheels. Electronics/computer issues are must more difficult to diagnosis and fix, and tend to be expensive. I've only had one minor issue with mine that was repaired under warrantee. it I guess all cars are becoming more and more computerized, so this would also be a concern for ICE vehicles as well.
As for comparisons to the V8,
Dodge 1500 5.7l Hemi:
- RANGE: ~500 miles.
- ACCELERATION. 0-60 in 6 seconds.
- POWER: 395 hp.
- TORQUE: 410 ft-lb.
Rivian:
- RANGE: ~400 miles.
- ACCELERATION: 0-60 in 3 seconds.
- POWER: 750 hp.
- TORQUE: 829 ft-lb.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
I’ve seen a couple people with 200k as well... I wonder how they will do at year 15. Time between replacement is a huge factor is a vehicles environmental impact.
My moms 00’ sienna still is a great road trip car, used it a bunch last year for hunting and camping, my corolla is at 250k at 15 years. Both vehicles have spent a ton of time being driven too fast of dirt roads. My experience with computers, as you alluded to, is they never make it more than 8 or 9.
You think a Rivian will be able to survive 20 years in eastern Montana.
Wildabeest
Well-known member
I do think they will be able to survive 15+ years. Looking forward to finding out! They may need a battery replacement during that time, but that not all that different than an engine or tranny overhaul in a traditional vehicle of that age. Not sure about eastern MT, but hopefully in western MT, WY and UT, which is where I do most of my tromping. There’s always kinks to be worked out with new tech, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the lack of problems so far. Computer can be a little quirky at times, but they are constantly updating the software and sending new “features”.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Tell me how the majority of F150's are doing at 15 yrs and 200k.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
I'm guessing component failure has been sufficiently pre-engineered to facilitate parts and new unit sales....as I wait for my software to update.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
They represent the ultimate disposable pickup. 100k and it's time for a new one
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