Pickup of the Future?

what is the newest model of R8 that has a manual transmission?
We haven't produced a manual R8 since 2017 I believe and those went fast! Both off the lot and on the pavement! There is an aftermarket company who will swap out a manual but I have no idea how much $$$ that costs....
 
I agree, the low range would be worrisome as well as battery health in the really cold days. But to each their own I recon
 
We haven't produced a manual R8 since 2017 I believe and those went fast! Both off the lot and on the pavement! There is an aftermarket company who will swap out a manual but I have no idea how much $$$ that costs....
a manual tran is hard to find in those. thx
 
Maybe missed in the last 350 posts, A question for those that own and EV. Just what does it cost to charge up the batteries and is there a difference in the price of electricity if you charge over night at home or if you need to charge at one of the express stations on the road?
 
Am I missing something?? 100K seems closer to a 100% increase to their original pricing stated in the first article in this thread. I was sure that they said 52,500 and that they qualify for the 7,500 tax rebate.
$52,500 was the Lordstown Endurance. That was being designed and marketed more as a fleet truck but also being marketed to individual consumers. They’ve since gotten caught cooking the books and pretty much gone belly up. Rivian price target has always been $65k-ish for the base model. Even with the price increase, you’d need to add a bunch of options to get to $100k.

And yes, given that PPP didn’t pass, as of right now most EV’s coming out from new companies will qualify for the $7,500 credit. Tesla, Toyota and Chevy have all hit their max quota eligible for the rebate, so unless the law gets changed none of their vehicles qualify for the credit anymore. The most recent versions of PPP would have put MSRP and income restrictions on the credit such that most Rivian’s wouldn’t qualify.
 
Maybe missed in the last 350 posts, A question for those that own and EV. Just what does it cost to charge up the batteries and is there a difference in the price of electricity if you charge over night at home or if you need to charge at one of the express stations on the road?
This is an “it depends” situation. Charging at home is generally far cheaper than what you’d comparably pay for gas. Many utilities offer lower off peak charging, and the charger and vehicles generally allow you to schedule the charging for those off peak times. Generally late at night which is when you’d usually want to charge anyhow. On average you’re probably looking at 10-20% of the cost of gas.

If you are using commercial chargers on road trips, then you won’t save nearly as much. Cost will generally be 80-90% of what gas would be, but there’s huge variability in that. There’s lots of free charging out there, and I’ve heard of some instances where charging actually cost more than gas would have. So it’s all over the map. The Nav tech in the cars typically will show you where the chargers are, and there are phone apps as well that will give you additional info about the chargers such as cost, max kW and real time availability.

The trade off for lower cost is time. You can fill a 20-30 gallon gas tank is just a couple of minutes. To go from 20-80% state of charge in an EV can take anywhere from 20 mins to an hour on a commercial DC fast charger, or 6-10 hours on a typical home charger. It’s not as much of a problem as one would imagine, but it does take some change in thinking and a little more planning.
 
Well, here is one persons take on the EV's. Not hard to figure his position on it.
But it would seem more fair if EV users had to pay their own "fuel" rather than free charging stations.
Makes me wonder how correct this guys numbers are, but if he is even close to correct
it's a heck of a strain on the elec grid

The Electric Vehicle Scam

by Dr. Jay Lehr and Tom Harris | Jan 15, 2022 | Climate Change, Lifestyle, Politics

1647527657206.png



The utility companies have thus far had little to say about the alarming cost projections to operate electric vehicles (EVs) or the increased rates that they will be required to charge their customers. It is not just the total amount of electricity required⏤but the transmission lines and fast charging capacity that must be built at existing filling stations. Neither wind nor solar can support any of it. Electric vehicles will never become the mainstream of transportation!

In part 1 of our exposé on the problems with electric vehicles (EVs), we showed that they were too expensive, too unreliable, rely on materials mined in China and other unfriendly countries, and require more electricity than the nation can afford. In this second part, we address other factors that will make any sensible reader avoid EVs like the plague.



EV Charging Insanity

In order to match the 2,000 cars that a typical filling station can service in a busy 12 hours, an EV charging station would require 600, 50-watt chargers at an estimated cost of $24 million and a supply of 30 megawatts of power from the grid. That is enough to power 20,000 homes. No one likely thinks about the fact that it can take 30 minutes to 8 hours to recharge a vehicle between empty or just topping off. What are the drivers doing during that time?

ICSC-Canada board member New Zealand-based consulting engineer Bryan Leyland describes why installing electric car charging stations in a city is impractical: “If you’ve got cars coming into a petrol station, they would stay for an average of five minutes. If you’ve got cars coming into an electric charging station, they would be at least 30 minutes, possibly an hour, but let’s say its 30 minutes. So that’s six times the surface area to park the cars while they’re being charged. So, multiply every petrol station in a city by six. Where are you going to find the place to put them?”

The government of the United Kingdom is already starting to plan for power shortages caused by the charging of thousands of EVs. Starting in June 2022, the government will restrict the time of day you can charge your EV battery. To do this, they will employ smart meters that are programmed to automatically switch off EV charging in peak times to avoid potential blackouts. In particular, the latest UK chargers will be pre-set to not function during 9-hours of peak loads, from 8 am to 11 am (3-hours), and 4 pm to 10 pm (6-hours). Unbelievably, the UK technology decides when and if an EV can be charged, and even allows EV batteries to be drained into the UK grid if required. Imagine charging your car all night only to discover in the morning that your battery is flat since the state took the power back. Better keep your gas-powered car as a reliable and immediately available backup! While EV charging will be an attractive source of revenue generation for the government, American citizens will be up in arms.



Used Car Market

The average used EV will need a new battery before an owner can sell it, pricing them well above used internal combustion cars. The average age of an American car on the road is 12 years. A 12-year-old EV will be on its third battery. A Tesla battery typically costs $10,000 so there will not be many 12-year-old EVs on the road. Good luck trying to sell your used green fairy tale electric car!

Tuomas Katainen, an enterprising Finish Tesla owner, had an imaginative solution to the battery replacement problem—he blew up his car! New York City-based Insider magazine reported (December 27, 2021): “The shop told him the faulty battery needed to be replaced, at a cost of about $22,000. In addition to the hefty fee, the work would need to be authorized by Tesla…Rather than shell out half the cost of a new Tesla to fix an old one, Katainen decided to do something different… The demolition experts from the YouTube channel Pommijätkät (Bomb Dudes) strapped 66 pounds of high explosives to the car and surrounded the area with slow-motion cameras…the 14 hotdog-shaped charges erupt into a blinding ball of fire, sending a massive shockwave rippling out from the car…The videos of the explosion have a combined 5 million views.” We understand that the standard Tesla warranty does not cover “damage resulting from intentional actions,” like blowing the car up for a YouTube video.





EVs Per Block In Your Neighborhood

A home charging system for a Tesla requires a 75-amp service. The average house is equipped with 100-amp service. On most suburban streets the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla. For half the homes on your block to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly overloaded.



Batteries

Although the modern lithium-ion battery is four times better than the old lead-acid battery, gasoline holds 80 times the energy density. The great lithium battery in your cell phone weighs less than an ounce while the Tesla battery weighs 1,000 pounds. And what do we get for this huge cost and weight? We get a car that is far less convenient and less useful than cars powered by internal combustion engines. Bryan Leyland explained why:

“When the Model T came out, it was a dramatic improvement on the horse and cart. The electric car is a step backward into the equivalence of an ordinary car with a tiny petrol tank that takes half an hour to fill. It offers nothing in the way of convenience or extra facilities.”



Our Conclusion

The electric automobile will always be around in a niche market likely never exceeding 10% of the cars on the road. All automobile manufacturers are investing in their output and all will be disappointed in their sales. Perhaps they know this and will manufacture just what they know they can sell. This is certainly not what President Biden or California Governor Newsom are planning for. However, for as long as the present government is in power, they will be pushing the electric car as another means to run our lives. We have a chance to tell them exactly what we think of their expensive and dangerous plans when we go to the polls in November of 2022.
 
@Tradewind it also depends on how each utility is intertwined within its service area. Ours, for example, was a Dept OF the City. We installed a few charges around town but they were never free to use as that would constitute a “gift of public funds” and was therefore prohibited by City charter.

If an individual business chose to install and offer “free power” to their customers they could but additional hoops to jump through. Either paid a contractor for said install with fees/permits/etc. being paid back to us for use of infrastructure or they contracted directly to us as a service extension but again paid to do so.

Either way, utilized charging electricity was master metered back to them and charged at the applicable rate.

Just one example 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
@Tradewind it also depends on how each utility is intertwined within its service area. Ours, for example, was a Dept OF the City. We installed a few charges around town but they were never free to use as that would constitute a “gift of public funds” and was therefore prohibited by City charter.

If an individual business chose to install and offer “free power” to their customers they could but additional hoops to jump through. Either paid a contractor for said install with fees/permits/etc. being paid back to us for use of infrastructure or they contracted directly to us as a service extension but again paid to do so.

Either way, utilized charging electricity was master metered back to them and charged at the applicable rate.

Just one example 🤷🏻‍♂️
the charging stations around me are all free. At least I have not walked up to one to see if they need a credit card. But have been told they are free
 
Yeah it’s a case by case basis, our was a Public Utility. I even tried to install one at work when they first came out just so we could study them better, load/draw/charge time/etc. but was told by City Council I could only charge city vehicles with it (and we had like just two at the time and they weren’t in our Dept) so I scrapped the idea. Rules is rules
 
I have right at a 500 mile range on one tank if I push it to the max, 450 comfortably. I wish I had another tank to push it out even further. My truck doesn't see pavement for sometimes a week at a time. I'm constantly planning out a trip to town for fuel. 250 mile range? Not for me thanks!
 
I have right at a 500 mile range on one tank if I push it to the max, 450 comfortably. I wish I had another tank to push it out even further. My truck doesn't see pavement for sometimes a week at a time. I'm constantly planning out a trip to town for fuel. 250 mile range? Not for me thanks!

Two trucks ago, mine had a custom 46gal tank, pushed the range right out to about 800miles. Downside was you better check your account when filling up and back in the $100 max pump days it was a 3 swiper to fill from E. Hauling 400# of fuel when full made it ride nicer though 😉
 
the charging stations around me are all free. At least I have not walked up to one to see if they need a credit card. But have been told they are free
I’ve not seen any that have an actual credit card reader on them. Instead you have an account with the charging provider and an access card with rfid chip or bar code that the charge reads. “Plug and Charge” standards are also rolling out where the car basically becomes your “card” and identifies itself to the charger which then knows to bill your account.

And some free chargers require an account as well. The ones at SLC airport are like that. You have to have a ChargePoint account and scan your ChargePoint card to use them, but it doesn’t charge you anything for it.
 
Last edited:
Two trucks ago, mine had a custom 46gal tank, pushed the range right out to about 800miles. Downside was you better check your account when filling up and back in the $100 max pump days it was a 3 swiper to fill from E. Hauling 400# of fuel when full made it ride nicer though 😉
I plumbed a 110 rectangle tank into my main tank for long trips. Not stopping on a trip out is great. Fueling up for the way back is s as other story.
 
Well, here is one persons take on the EV's. Not hard to figure his position on it.
But it would seem more fair if EV users had to pay their own "fuel" rather than free charging stations.
Makes me wonder how correct this guys numbers are, but if he is even close to correct
it's a heck of a strain on the elec grid

The Electric Vehicle Scam

by Dr. Jay Lehr and Tom Harris | Jan 15, 2022 | Climate Change, Lifestyle, Politics

View attachment 215725



The utility companies have thus far had little to say about the alarming cost projections to operate electric vehicles (EVs) or the increased rates that they will be required to charge their customers. It is not just the total amount of electricity required⏤but the transmission lines and fast charging capacity that must be built at existing filling stations. Neither wind nor solar can support any of it. Electric vehicles will never become the mainstream of transportation!

In part 1 of our exposé on the problems with electric vehicles (EVs), we showed that they were too expensive, too unreliable, rely on materials mined in China and other unfriendly countries, and require more electricity than the nation can afford. In this second part, we address other factors that will make any sensible reader avoid EVs like the plague.



EV Charging Insanity

In order to match the 2,000 cars that a typical filling station can service in a busy 12 hours, an EV charging station would require 600, 50-watt chargers at an estimated cost of $24 million and a supply of 30 megawatts of power from the grid. That is enough to power 20,000 homes. No one likely thinks about the fact that it can take 30 minutes to 8 hours to recharge a vehicle between empty or just topping off. What are the drivers doing during that time?

ICSC-Canada board member New Zealand-based consulting engineer Bryan Leyland describes why installing electric car charging stations in a city is impractical: “If you’ve got cars coming into a petrol station, they would stay for an average of five minutes. If you’ve got cars coming into an electric charging station, they would be at least 30 minutes, possibly an hour, but let’s say its 30 minutes. So that’s six times the surface area to park the cars while they’re being charged. So, multiply every petrol station in a city by six. Where are you going to find the place to put them?”

The government of the United Kingdom is already starting to plan for power shortages caused by the charging of thousands of EVs. Starting in June 2022, the government will restrict the time of day you can charge your EV battery. To do this, they will employ smart meters that are programmed to automatically switch off EV charging in peak times to avoid potential blackouts. In particular, the latest UK chargers will be pre-set to not function during 9-hours of peak loads, from 8 am to 11 am (3-hours), and 4 pm to 10 pm (6-hours). Unbelievably, the UK technology decides when and if an EV can be charged, and even allows EV batteries to be drained into the UK grid if required. Imagine charging your car all night only to discover in the morning that your battery is flat since the state took the power back. Better keep your gas-powered car as a reliable and immediately available backup! While EV charging will be an attractive source of revenue generation for the government, American citizens will be up in arms.



Used Car Market

The average used EV will need a new battery before an owner can sell it, pricing them well above used internal combustion cars. The average age of an American car on the road is 12 years. A 12-year-old EV will be on its third battery. A Tesla battery typically costs $10,000 so there will not be many 12-year-old EVs on the road. Good luck trying to sell your used green fairy tale electric car!

Tuomas Katainen, an enterprising Finish Tesla owner, had an imaginative solution to the battery replacement problem—he blew up his car! New York City-based Insider magazine reported (December 27, 2021): “The shop told him the faulty battery needed to be replaced, at a cost of about $22,000. In addition to the hefty fee, the work would need to be authorized by Tesla…Rather than shell out half the cost of a new Tesla to fix an old one, Katainen decided to do something different… The demolition experts from the YouTube channel Pommijätkät (Bomb Dudes) strapped 66 pounds of high explosives to the car and surrounded the area with slow-motion cameras…the 14 hotdog-shaped charges erupt into a blinding ball of fire, sending a massive shockwave rippling out from the car…The videos of the explosion have a combined 5 million views.” We understand that the standard Tesla warranty does not cover “damage resulting from intentional actions,” like blowing the car up for a YouTube video.





EVs Per Block In Your Neighborhood

A home charging system for a Tesla requires a 75-amp service. The average house is equipped with 100-amp service. On most suburban streets the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla. For half the homes on your block to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly overloaded.



Batteries

Although the modern lithium-ion battery is four times better than the old lead-acid battery, gasoline holds 80 times the energy density. The great lithium battery in your cell phone weighs less than an ounce while the Tesla battery weighs 1,000 pounds. And what do we get for this huge cost and weight? We get a car that is far less convenient and less useful than cars powered by internal combustion engines. Bryan Leyland explained why:

“When the Model T came out, it was a dramatic improvement on the horse and cart. The electric car is a step backward into the equivalence of an ordinary car with a tiny petrol tank that takes half an hour to fill. It offers nothing in the way of convenience or extra facilities.”



Our Conclusion

The electric automobile will always be around in a niche market likely never exceeding 10% of the cars on the road. All automobile manufacturers are investing in their output and all will be disappointed in their sales. Perhaps they know this and will manufacture just what they know they can sell. This is certainly not what President Biden or California Governor Newsom are planning for. However, for as long as the present government is in power, they will be pushing the electric car as another means to run our lives. We have a chance to tell them exactly what we think of their expensive and dangerous plans when we go to the polls in November of 2022.
He may have some correct numbers, but his logic is totally flawed. Most EV charging will be done at home, and he completely ignores that in comparing how many public chargers it would take to replace gas stations. Then when he does talk about home charging, it’s a doomsday scenario conflating current infrastructure with future need. Our electric grid and generation capacity has always moved forward to meet demand. Imagine yourself in 1940 with a view into the future and all of the electric stuff that would need powered in the year 2000. You’d probably have similar panic. We’re not going to go from 0 to 100% EV overnight. It will take many years, and the infrastructure will spend and adapt to the need over time.
 
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