Pickup of the Future?

[mtmuley]

Subsidies for electric cars are ok. Right? mtmuley

 

[GA_HNTR]

The Tesla Cybertruck is a beast! 0-60 in 2.9 secs, tows 14,000 pounds, 500+ mile range, and drives itself! I can't wait to get mine.

 

[Wildabeest]

So I dont know much about these electric vehicles, but I can drive across country to PA and stop for gas every 400ish miles and be back on the road in 5 minutes. Doesn't it take like 5 to 12 hrs to charge a tesla depending on the model? To me thats a problem. Thats adding 40hrs to my drive give or take a few. Am I wrong on that?

Depends on the type of charger. The ones you generally see in most mall parking lots or workplace lots are slow - they add about 20 miles of range per hour of charge. Those are level 2 chargers. But the level 3 chargers, such as Tesla Supercharger network, are much faster. They can add 200 miles of range in about 20-30 minutes. These exist about every 100 miles or so on most interstate highways. The problem is that these can only be used to charge Tesla’s. Electrify America is building out a network of commercial level 3 chargers that anyone can use and are even faster than Tesla’s. They have an agreement with Walmart, so you’ll often see them in Walmart parking lots. There’s still major gaps for non-Tesla, especially in WY, MT and the Dakotas. There’s currently no level 3 options for non-Tesla. Tesla has the entire country well covered. Rivian is also,building out their own level 3 network for Rivian’s, and have plans to cover the existing gaps with over 3500 chargers over the next two years.

The high speed chargers are mostly designed for stopping on long trips. Most EV owners will charge at home overnight using a level 2 charger.

 

[Wildabeest]

I want to see the total report on the emissions created to produce these vehicles.

Just because it uses "GREEN ENERGY" doesn't mean they should not have their feet held to the fire for the batteries and toxic waste from said batteries for the next eon...

Whats really funny to me is that they try to push them as clean energy but they still require 100% fossil fuels to produce and maintain...lol

I’m a big EV fan, but for reasons beyond their “green” aspects. The performance, the tech, the lack of routine maintenance just to mention a few. I don’t agree with, nor do I like, the way the industry markets them as if they have zero environmental impact. They do consume raw material such as lithium, and the energy they operate on isn’t 100% green as has been mentioned (but neither is it 100% fossil based as one uninformed poster stated). I’ve owned an EV for 6 years and have followed the industry and the various reporting about the “greenness” of EV. It’s a highly debated topic, but most credible research would indicate that they are more green in total than ICE vehicles. Just not as much as the industry wants you to believe.

The industry is also very active on recycling for the batteries. At the end of their useful life in a car, many will end up as storage for the grid or backup power for homes since they essentially serve the same purpose as a generator.

 

[Wildabeest]

If you're commuting locally or have a fleet that just runs around town I can see a use for them. Long road trips or heavy daily milage is a no go.

Amazon is under contract to buy 100,000 all-electric delivery vans from Rivian. They began hitting the streets a couple of months ago.

 

[Wildabeest]

As far as charging goes, it does take more time than I would want. But not sure why you would have to wait on a full charge. I just put 20 gallons in the Silverado at the 7/11. A lady pulled up on the other side of me and squirted in 8 bucks worth in a few minutes. Maybe people would stop and charge up just enough to get home. No reason to have to fully charge everytme they needed juice.

This is a big mindset shift with EV’s. With my 4Runner, I always fill it completely any time I stop for gas. If I’m on a road trip in my Tesla, I only add enough juice to get to the next charger. Charge taper is part of the reason for that - it charges slower as it gets more full. So you’re better off from a time standpoint stopping more frequently and not filling 100%. It’s a bit counterintuitive until you get used to it.

 

[Wildabeest]

Seen 2 vid's recently on the Ford Lightning and it does look interesting. Like a real truck.
The others I've seen are for hollywood or short offroad.
The drive system on the Ford seems like it would work in similar situations as I run into everyday with my 150. Most folks would consider our hwys offroad conditions. lol
The charging systems need to be worked out so one could set up a charger/panel system for home use,reasonably. Roll out flex panels as bed covers or campershell top for charging while parked would make them very use full.
Nobrainer if these things are worked out.Here in NM for sure.

Times change.
I see old cars that never made it to a gas station,abandoned from dust bowl days.
Glad I'm not trying to take the buckboard to town too. And get home in one day.

Show me a tractor or big rig and I'm in.

Rivian and Hummer will be true off-road capable rigs. Hummer slightly more so than Rivian.

Home charging is a very mature market. You can buy a home charger from numerous companies for less than $500 + cost of install. Or do what I did and put a dryer outlet (NEMA 14-50) in your garage. Mine was less than $20 in parts and I installed it myself. You just need an available 50amp breaker in your panel.

The idea of portable solar panels has been kicked around, but the physics don’t really make it a viable option. EV’s consume a lot of juice, and the size of panels required to make even a small dent in what they consume is just not feasible in a portable setup. The only place it make a small amount of sense would be if you were going on a long backcountry camping trip when the truck would sit for days unused. With portable solar systems that are on the market today, you could add about 10 miles of range per day with those systems, assuming ideal weather and 8 hrs of good sun.

 

[Wildabeest]

Well I did the research, and opened my mind. The mining process for the batteries still hasn't changed and does environmental harm. The fuel it stakes to get the components here from other countries offsets the the fuel "savings". The disposal problems when the batteries go bad still exists, the charging problems and locations are still a problem. So its still dumb. I have had several friends who have had both Hybrid ( the only real option that makes some sense), straight hybrid and they all went back to gas. The cost savings is not there. The prices have dropped dramatically because they do not dell very well and they have to to meet the GPM overall ratings set by the government. Sales prove everything.

Although you do get a front row parking spot in most places.

Agree on the mining having a negative environmental impact. However, the logistics to get materials here are no more negative impact than ICE. We can nitpick all the various environmental costs of every aspect of the supply chain and operations to get a total assessment. The research is pretty clear on that if you choose to study it. I have, and have come to the conclusion that EV have a net positive impact when compared to comparable ICE. But you’ve decided what you want to believe and I’m not going to change your mind. And if you want to continue to drive an ICE until the end of time, I’m happy for your choice.

 

[Wildabeest]

If you and 2 or 3 other neighbors get Cybertrucks and the 240v charging kit, be sure to buy some lanterns and candles because transformers will be popping like water balloons on a hot summer afternoon at the playground.

"Local distribution grids are not built to accommodate the huge spikes in demand where electric cars will be particularly prevalent. Transformers, which connect every home and business to the power grid, are the most vulnerable and affected elements of the system. Most residential transformers serve between 10 and 50kVA of load, a single plug-in vehicle (PEV) with a 240V (Level 2) charging system consumes approximately 7kVa." - https://www.fleetcarma.com/ev-clustered-charging-can-problematic-electrical-utilities/

I don't know about you, but I'm not looking forward to 30 to 40 cents per kWh electric bills. And the cost in materials and environmental disturbance to move and manage that much load will not be trivial. Of course that disruption may be offset by the mandatory solar panels we'll all be forced to buy, you know, "for the children."

Air conditioner draw 3.5kW. Water heaters about the same. Dryer about the same. Oven about the same. Add all that up across EVERY home in your neighborhood, and a few EV’s are not going to make as big of a difference as you might think. The system will scale up as demand increases just as it has for 100 years.

 

[Wildabeest]

Currently we're
60% fossil fuels
20% nuclear
20% renewables

An electric car uses ~ the same energy in a year as a average single family home. (Lots of variability, but it's a lot of electricity)

I don't think it's hyperbolic to say that we will build a lot of fossil fuel power plants, natural gas primarily, to meet the electricity demand.


Our neighbor just bought a Tesla, it runs on Natural Gas.
View attachment 183742

Green would be looking at a transition to more public transit and promoting ultra cheap, long lasting vehicles with far fewer bells and whistles. Teslas might be sexy but they aren't green.

I think the best solution overall electricity demand issue is nuclear. However, the increased overall demand can be offset in an environmentally friendly way with home solar. Rooftop solar can reduce your power needs from the grid 50-100% depending on your location and consumption needs. That’s not an option in dense urban areas, but is viable in the burbs and rural areas.

 

[Irrelevant]

Feels like a lot of bs marketing for a sports car is all I'm saying.

I think we need to be more pragmatic about green energy. During the pandemic we saw, obviously an explosion in remote working, and honestly we did not see a decline in productivity.

That's definitely not true for all people, all companies, or all industries. One of the many things from the pandemic that social scientists will spend careers on, is the drop in productivity when working from home. Almost all tech have moved back towards bringing people back because productivity absolutely declined company wide. While some of us continued cranky away, others didn't, and the company suffered. Not all, but enough that offices will still be in demand. DT Seattle is seeing it's highest demand for office space ever.

Green policy #1 should be, all companies that can go remote should go remote. You don't need to fly across the country for a business meeting 99% of the time, you don't need to commute from the burbs to downtown to sit in front of a screen. That alone will save more energy than any EV vehicle.

In 2019 I put 25,000 miles on my car from March 2020 -> May 2021 I put 4,000. So ~ 32 barrels of oil less. That doesn't apply to everyone, obviously but if you don't need to commute you shouldn't, period.

See above, some should, some shouldn't. But companies should continue to allow people to work from home if they 1) want to, 2) can stay productive.

Public transit, our public transit blows ass, better and well planned public transit reduces drives.

True but irrelevant to the topic.

As far as cars, have you been in a Tesla?

Have you been in an F-150 lately? I mean our Rav4 has basically all that, plus all the crap associated with a IC engine.

Compare that to your old ass honda. Cameras, LCD screens, sensors, chips, etc etc. takes energy to produce. In terms of energy used a tesla takes what 10x more to build than an 04' Honda? When your car dies why not buy a used Honda, maybe fix the clutch and some belts, instead of building a space ship, I mean if the whole point is planet saving.

Those clutches and belts come from somewhere other than where you live right? I mean I still have functioning electric motors from the 1950's that have seen exactly 0 maintenance. 0. No oil, no filters, no tune ups. Electric motors are crazy efficient and long lasting.

In high school it seemed like ever yuppie was driving a porche boxster and now every they have a Tesla and yeah if that's the trade then sure moving we are moving in the right direction.

In terms of actually doing anything seems too little too late.

... Bruh a Tesla is the pack raft of cars, like can't we agree the world needs more boats that will last a lifetime

I don't actually like teslas and will never own one. But the electric vehicle concept is absolutely the old fiberglass canoe that will last a lifetime then some. And you can neglect it all the while.

 

[LuketheDog]

I'm going to get a cyber truck at some point. Everybody makes fun of me, but that truck makes me feel a certain kind of way. like Batman.

Yeah, but the George Clooney Batman with the nipples on his suit, not the Christian Bale Batman or the Michael Keaton Batman

 

[Wildabeest]

I'm not thinking that far into this. I'm thinking 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, bombing down a mountain road in silence wearing a batman suit. Way to crush a man Childs imagination lol.

103 mph on the snow. Check out the 3:00 point of this video.

 

[KB_]

103 mph on the snow. Check out the 3:00 point of this video.

Id like to see what they can do in 2 to 3 ft of powder

 

[DouglasR]

Go buy a heavy duty Diesel engine from 2007 or earlier then go buy one from 2008-present and come back and tell me how amazing your world saving technologies are.

Is his name really Elon? What a great marketing coincidence.
He made ev’s cool.
people want to be cool like him.
he’s just so cool.
like he goes to burning man, man.
I lost a lot of respect for him when he puffed that B like a schoolboy on Rogan.
If you’re gonna claim to be some great future seer and brilliant mind you should prob be able to figure out how to inhale.
lost respect for Rogan too.
he should’ve roasted him for that.
sad.

 

[hank4elk]

I believe the Ford video showed it driving on 2 tracks. I never was a full off road type of guy,except to get work done,recover game or firewood. I did the crash & burn deal when I was young.

As far as nuclear,I have yet to see a viable solution to the waste. Ever.
I was on the Natalus,1st US nuke sub and on the NS Savanah ,on tours. Both were short lived & we still are screwing with the waste.

I guess I believe in science and we hopefully will figure something out besides drill more. They should have put their energy into efficient use & not wasting most of the oil on plastics.IMHO

I do know what is possible in this country. I learned that from my grandpa,who lived between Edison & Sikorski. My dad grew up with many wonders,after watching the 1st helicopter fly & such.

 

[SaskHunter]

I'd be down to clown with a hybrid pick up truck. At the end of the day, I need something that I can drive all day 'er day!

 

[Deleted member 28227]

That's definitely not true for all people, all companies, or all industries. One of the many things from the pandemic that social scientists will spend careers on, is the drop in productivity when working from home. Almost all tech have moved back towards bringing people back because productivity absolutely declined company wide. While some of us continued cranky away, others didn't, and the company suffered. Not all, but enough that offices will still be in demand. DT Seattle is seeing it's highest demand for office space ever.

See above, some should, some shouldn't. But companies should continue to allow people to work from home if they 1) want to, 2) can stay productive.

True but irrelevant to the topic.

Have you been in an F-150 lately? I mean our Rav4 has basically all that, plus all the crap associated with a IC engine.

Those clutches and belts come from somewhere other than where you live right? I mean I still have functioning electric motors from the 1950's that have seen exactly 0 maintenance. 0. No oil, no filters, no tune ups. Electric motors are crazy efficient and long lasting.

I don't actually like teslas and will never own one. But the electric vehicle concept is absolutely the old fiberglass canoe that will last a lifetime then some. And you can neglect it all the while.

Yeah we know he wants you back in your cubical.... how else can you "manage" people for a living.



And I totally agree, EV truck versus diesel/gas truck, EV hands down. But it's not green, it will never be green. It's possibly less shitty, possibly.

Would love to see someone take the Tesla motor, put it in a '04 honda. Power nothing, no navigation, mechanical everything, but with that motor. I bet that car would indeed last forever.

95% of Tesla buyers, given that market are going to drive them for 2-3 years and upgrade.

Tesla is fairly decent about recycling, but they are tiny. Interesting to see how good at recycling batteries we are when Ford is building all EV cars and trucks.

 

[Irrelevant]

Yeah we know he wants you back in your cubical.... how else can you "manage" people for a living.
View attachment 183812


And I totally agree, EV truck versus diesel/gas truck, EV hands down. But it's not green, it will never be green. It's possibly less shitty, possibly.

Hasn't "green" always been just less shitty?

Would love to see someone take the Tesla motor, put it in a '04 honda. Power nothing, no navigation, mechanical everything, but with that motor. I bet that car would indeed last forever.

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I dare you...

95% of Tesla buyers, given that market are going to drive them for 2-3 years and upgrade.

But also true of most new car buyers, not just telsa's

Tesla is fairly decent about recycling, but they are tiny. Interesting to see how good at recycling batteries we are when Ford is building all EV cars and trucks.

Probably pretty shitty. I mean we can't even recycle sorted glass bottles effectively without China.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Hasn't "green" always been just less shitty?

But also true of most new car buyers, not just telsa's

Absolutely, and absolutely.

When I rag on EVs its in the context, "have you met Americans".