Paul Ryan, bowhunter

[Outdoor Junkie]

Sorry about that, I called it a loop hole. I understand that investmetns are taxed at a lower rate. I guess I should have said to make all forms of income taxed on the same scale. If the richest people in the U.S. are making most of their income from investments, then investments need to be taxed on the same tax scale with the average Joe's 9-5 income.

I guess what I was getting at is that I don't have the details of the answer, but I do have a clear picture of what a true solution is and I would vote for any politician (regardless of party) who campaigned on a true middle ground solution. Hell, I don't even have to agree with a lot of the things they propose in the compromise. I just want someone who ackowledges we have an issue (most politicians do) and then proposes and articulates a true solution (very few have the combination of guts and intelligence to do this).

Pointing fingers and blaming Bush or Obama does nothing. My 3 year old can point fingers and blame someone else (she does it daily).

With all this said, I do like the fact that Ryan had the intelligence and the guts to put out his own tax cut proposal. It is a far right proposal, but it shows me he is at least knowledgable and gutsy enough to take on this issue. Now he just needs to show me he's willing to meet the Democrats in the middle.

Going to disagree with you on this one. People like Buffet (and Romney for that matter) get their income from investments which by statute (not loophole) are taxed at a much more favorable rate than money earned by going to work from 9-5.

Sure, they engage attorneys and accountants to help with strategy (as everybody should), but bottom line is if you have a problem with guys that pay a low tax rate because of investments hate the law, not the man.

 

[smarandr]

Sorry about that, I called it a loop hole. I understand that investmetns are taxed at a lower rate. I guess I should have said to make all forms of income taxed on the same scale. If the richest people in the U.S. are making most of their income from investments, then investments need to be taxed on the same tax scale with the average Joe's 9-5 income.

I guess what I was getting at is that I don't have the details of the answer, but I do have a clear picture of what a true solution is and I would vote for any politician (regardless of party) who campaigned on a true middle ground solution. Hell, I don't even have to agree with a lot of the things they propose in the compromise. I just want someone who ackowledges we have an issue (most politicians do) and then proposes and articulates a true solution (very few have the combination of guts and intelligence to do this).

Pointing fingers and blaming Bush or Obama does nothing. My 3 year old can point fingers and blame someone else (she does it daily).

With all this said, I do like the fact that Ryan had the intelligence and the guts to put out his own tax cut proposal. It is a far right proposal, but it shows me he is at least knowledgable and gutsy enough to take on this issue. Now he just needs to show me he's willing to meet the Democrats in the middle.

Amen brother.

 

[Outdoor Junkie]

Smarandr,

I also wanted to calrify that I don't hate anyone who makes the income. I actually have a lot of admiration for Buffet, Gates, Romeney and all those people who have made themsellves wealthy. They are great examples of what hard work and vision can do for a person.

My point was to say that the tax code needs to be such that the richest people aren't payng a lower tax rate than the average 9-5 guy out there.

 

[spook12]

Anyone want to go hunting!

 

[smarandr]

Anyone want to go hunting!

Yes! Leaving for archery antelope tomorrow afternoon.

 

[spook12]

Good luck, smarandr. I'm packing now for a couple weeks chasing elk.

 

[Outdoor Junkie]

47 days until wyoming antelope and mule deer... just sighted in the rifle last night I've got my "pile" of gear on my office floor (work in sales with a home office) and I could probably be ready to head out in an hour if the season would hurry up and get here.

Until then, I've got a farmer friend in Wisconsin that needs some crop damage tags fillled. Nothing like target practice on the real thing to build confidence It's a great deal! He reduces the crop damage, I get to put some more steaks and roast in the freezer and I don't feel the need to take the first animal I see with the buck tags in October and November, since the freezer is good to go.

 

[Rat Fink]

Sorry about that, I called it a loop hole. I understand that investmetns are taxed at a lower rate. I guess I should have said to make all forms of income taxed on the same scale. If the richest people in the U.S. are making most of their income from investments, then investments need to be taxed on the same tax scale with the average Joe's 9-5 income.

I guess what I was getting at is that I don't have the details of the answer, but I do have a clear picture of what a true solution is and I would vote for any politician (regardless of party) who campaigned on a true middle ground solution. Hell, I don't even have to agree with a lot of the things they propose in the compromise. I just want someone who ackowledges we have an issue (most politicians do) and then proposes and articulates a true solution (very few have the combination of guts and intelligence to do this).

Pointing fingers and blaming Bush or Obama does nothing. My 3 year old can point fingers and blame someone else (she does it daily).

With all this said, I do like the fact that Ryan had the intelligence and the guts to put out his own tax cut proposal. It is a far right proposal, but it shows me he is at least knowledgable and gutsy enough to take on this issue. Now he just needs to show me he's willing to meet the Democrats in the middle.

Your proposal penalizes an average joe like me that makes some money from investments. Hopefully by smart investing and saving I will be able to retire at an early age and my "income" will be taxed at 15%. If I can invest I put other people to work. If I retire early because I have good returns on my investments, I will put someone to work filling my job. You wanna take away my incentive to put money into creating jobs and working hard now so I can enjoy life later.

I don't make much money compared to most. I save and invest smartly. If and when capital gains is taxed at 35% to become more fair with "income" taxes, I will quit investing and only save. That's my personal threat to those of you that want to get their share of MY money. And don't think that I won't do it...

Take away the incentive of self betterment and you end up at the tipping point we are at right now. Once we pass the 50% of non tax paying citizens, it's over.

 

[steamfitter]

I never said they were free that they were tax deductible im saying me personnally i would rather pay dues and make a better living than not and make less. Yes work is shipped over seas now because wages are so cheap. No overtime, no insurance if you are hurt on the job, great for a wealthy buisness. I never said the only reason people arent working for minimum wage is because of unions i said unions fight for higher wage in return they also fight for higher minimum wage. Look im no smart college graduate all im saying is im thankfull to be in a union and i support it and if a politician wants to bust unions im not voting for him or her because thats how i make a living. It was the best for me without going to college seeing i hated school anyway. I dont agree with eveything my union does but it has given me a good living and i do have a say in what they do by vote sometimes all members agree and sometimes they dont. And where i live a non union welder is lucky to make 16 dollars an hour and a union welder makes 50 so i choose to make 50. Both contractors bid the same work for dam near the same amount but union pays more to its employees where the other keeps more in the pocket. Does some unions abuse things yes they do but everything the union im in has to go through vote so i have never seen them step over a 100 to get a 5.

If unions are such great things why have they been in decline for 30 years? Entire industries that used to be here and be unionized have moved offshore? Wonder why.

I have no choice but to work for minimum wage? How do you figure that one. I have never once in my life worked for minium wage, well except in the Army but even that was above minimum wage. I could do a million other things if somebody doesn't want to pay me for what I am worth. I also have never belonged to a union but wife does. Her union would trip of $100 bill just so everybody could get $5 each. So don't tell me that the only reason people are not working for minumum wage is unions. Again anyone that believes that as a fact is smoking crack.

Public sector unions are fine as long as the public sector workers understand that the taxpayers are their employers and there fore have a right to determine what amount of tax burden they are willing to endure. That is a fact and anyone who says otherwise is a hack. Private sector unions have every right to get whatever they can at the bargaining table as the employer can either say yes or no.

Anyone who thinks their union dues are "free" because they deduct them from their taxes should probably stay out of arguements in regards to market forces and wage scales. I learned long ago on this board to never have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Nemont

 

[noharleyyet]

NHY- I don't believe Newt is correct. If the "trickle down" economics worked, then why is it that the stock market is close to an all-time high and corporate profits are at an all time high but incomes and country wide prosperity is not at an all time high? Somewhere there is a disconnect...Can you explain where this disconnect is? MattK

Matt, add Harry Reid's pic....disconnect. You may include Boehner.

 

[Outdoor Junkie]

Rat fink,

I don't think you were getting the point of my posts. The point is that you can't get this fixed without everyone giving a little. The way we are going right now isn't working. I don't have the detailed plan on how to resolve this, but we need to elect people who have the guts, leadership and intelligence to actually bring about real change so we don't leave the country bankrupt for our kids and grand kids.

That is the point of what I'm getting at. The alternative is to keep giving tax cuts, keep increase spending for everyones pet projects and favorite government agencies and keep digging a deeper hole that future generations will have to somehow deal with. My kids and future grand kids shouldn't have to pay back the debt incurred before they even knew what an investment was.

I'm willing to sacrifice with less money towards government programs I support and pay higher taxes if it means that the other side will dramatically reduce spending and reform entitlements.

 

[Nemont]

I never said they were free that they were tax deductible . I never said the only reason people arent working for minimum wage is because of unions .

.I dont pay the union a large some of money i pay a small amount for the return i get and its tax deductable so in reality i dont pay anything but keep working for a non union places and supporting them because if it werent for the unions you wouldnt be making more than min. wage anyway.

Which of these didn't you say?

I am glad you make a good living and enjoy the union membership you do. Unions are like college, they aren't for everyone and some people would rather have the risk/reward of being business for themselves. To each their own but don't tell me that unions are the reason we are a great country, how much would unions workers make without companies that build, invest and run their business?

Union guys sure get uppity whenever there is a discussion about unions. If unions were the greatest way for labor to get paid then unions would not have been on the decline for so long.

Nemont

 

[steamfitter]

i meant something different it came out wrong maybe i should have gone to college. And people that own buisness need people with skills it works both ways you cant build a nuclear power plant or refinery without skilled labor and neither should take advantage of the other that is all i mean a days work for honest days pay.Their are many reasons we are a great country i dont remember saying that was the reason. Im not an uppity type person matter of fact i could of beat the hell out of a bunch of union guys in new york while i was superintendent their because they felt they were owed something for nothing and just hope that these guys relize before the union is busted there that they are supposed to be the best of the best so i understand both sides.

Which of these didn't you say?

I am glad you make a good living and enjoy the union membership you do. Unions are like college, they aren't for everyone and some people would rather have the risk/reward of being business for themselves. To each their own but don't tell me that unions are the reason we are a great country, how much would unions workers make without companies that build, invest and run their business?

Union guys sure uppity whenever there is a discussion about unions. If unions were the greatest way for labor to get paid then unions would not have been on the decline for so long.

Nemont

 

[Ben Lamb]

Well this has turned out well.

Nemont, not much I disagree with in your premises, just your conclusions. One day we'll plow through a six pack and talk about this in person.