Pa Elk
- Thread starter dgc1963
- Start date
JdGoodhart
Member
Exciting stuff. This is going to be my first year for putting in and don't expect to draw, but you never know. Good luck.
MJE2083
Well-known member
I heard rumor that previous points will not be counted for these new seasons. All applicants for those seasons will be starting from 0. Anyone know anything about that?
jdf
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2011
- Messages
- 490
Heard same
I was told all your point count for all seasons, someone else was told points only count for the existing season so have different answers for the same question
Ill be calling again to try and verify Id really like to know due to fact if they do not apply then I want to use my points 12 I believe for a bull tag and will apply in the other drawings for a cow since we all start at zero
In my pea brain that seems kinda logical
Ill be calling again to try and verify Id really like to know due to fact if they do not apply then I want to use my points 12 I believe for a bull tag and will apply in the other drawings for a cow since we all start at zero
In my pea brain that seems kinda logical
farmerboy1381
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2018
- Messages
- 107
I am sure somebody has a better memory than I do. Back in the early 2000’s Didnt they have an early archery season and drop it because of very low success rates? If memory serves no elk were harvested in the last archery hunt.
Gunner46
Well-known member
PA does not have a 'point' system that is used by most western states. If you are unsuccessful in the PA draw you simply get an addition entry in the next years drawing. There is no 'cashing in'. If you're unsuccessful for 5 years you will 5 additional entries, but the draw remains random from the total pool.
This is correct.
I consider my application fee a donation every year. Draw odds hover between 0.05-0.8% depending on number of points. Statistically we will die of old age before you draw so much as a cow tag. A boy can dream though....
I have not heard how the new draw system is going to work in regards to existing points. I will have to do some asking around and report back
MJE2083
Well-known member
Not sure how many points you have, but I was at the Elk Expo for the drawing last year and PGC officials said what the odds were for someone with max points. It was higher than I expected. I don't remember for sure but it was either 1:7 or 17%. I don't have max points, but it was interesting to hear them say that it's not as unattainable as many believe.
They also talked about another common misconception: applying for a particular unit does not increase or decrease your draw odds. Unit preference only comes into play after you are drawn.
Bullshot
Well-known member
I'm in either way, just wish PA would allow the elk to spread further into other suitable habitats (I heard they are eliminating them if they wander outside the elk zone) and also that they would pare back the circus atmosphere about them. There's a little bit of a canned feeling to it all, what with the visitors center (pretty cool place though), the PA wild elk country signs, the driving tour loops, all the organized viewing areas and tourist trap advertising and real estate development. I worry it might be a little bit like hunting zoo animals after a while. Lots of beautiful rugged country out there, but I have heard of some pretty low class guided hunts occurring. Still, I am glad they're here... just 1% sad that the vibe is not a little more wild.
MJE2083
Well-known member
They addressed that at Elk Expo last year too. Said that many mistakenly believe that they should expand into ANF, but biologists said that's not feasible. They did indicate that there has been some talk of expanding east. I've definitely heard that they do not want them below I80. I think the CWD is probably causing some concerns as well. In fact I think the PGC did kill a bull that had wandered outside of the "zone" a year or two ago because they were worried about it getting into a CWD zone and potentially returning infected to the herd.
I agree with your feelings on it, but I think the expansion and sustainability hinges largely on the ability to draw tourism. I've heard that the herd is hard on agriculture, so without the positive economic gains from tourism public support would be easily lost. Maybe these expanded seasons put a little more pressure on them and makes them a little more wary of humans?
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Bullshot
Well-known member
South of 80 has lots of habitat, but more people and ag. So why not just have it be unlimited archery down there? That would keep them wary, out of farm fields and provide opportunity. The optics of requiring the State to have to kill every elk that crosses the wrong road is terrible. The local residents I know there think it is a waste. But I also have a problem with a the biologist saying its "not feasible" for elk to expand into ANF. Ecologically speaking or politically? That area is massive and could certainly support elk. Maybe not ideal forage everywhere, but are really they saying the elk would not survive, that no elk could live there?? If they are worried about crop damage on the periphery of the forest, just allow liberal archery seasons or late antlerless hunts. A few ppl would complain about low populations and low success rates, but you could give MANY more people a chance at them in sporting conditions, and something tells me it would generate a healthy bit of hunting, scouting, camping, tourism dollars from it! Keeping it as the intensely over-manipulated novelty that it currently is, threatens the whole initiative. Something is very cool for tourists but very wrong for a wild game population when it is not uncommon to have huge 7X7 or larger or other non-typical type bulls eating flower beds and apple trees or lazily grazing fully visible in ag on the side of the road in town. I just reviewed the elk area on the map and between the elk themed Cabins, Bed and Breakfasts, Cafes, Diners, etc, etc, etc, and the nice parking ammenities and ADA compliant viewing paths and overlooks, people are going to come to love these "pets" a bit too much, and I worry it won't be long before the shoe drops like it has in other high profile and visible areas - The hunt protesters will come, if they have not already. Some fool will obtain 50,000 signatures and a hunting ban ballot initiative is proposed. The game commission is playing into those hand with the alarmist reaction to CWD worries too. What if one comes back positive? Will they be forced to destroy the herd? The only way around much of this - if PA wants to encourage a true wild herd, rather than a localized road-side amusement - is to allow them to occupy more of their habitat more fully and naturally and manage them as any other wildlife in PA.
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They have relocated the elk into other areas one was in clinton county and I believe they are doing well their if I remember right 29 animals one reason I dont think they move as much as their western cousins is the fact they are grazers and eat grasses so our pa woods dont hold the food like fields do I did see a nice bull out rt 6 above hazel hurst in mckean county a few yrs back
Yes around bennezette they are like a road side zoo but if you bump into one away from their in the woods they are as sly and wary as they elk out west saw some at the edge of the woods outside the area and slowed down for a pic they exploded out of their like know ones business
Yes around bennezette they are like a road side zoo but if you bump into one away from their in the woods they are as sly and wary as they elk out west saw some at the edge of the woods outside the area and slowed down for a pic they exploded out of their like know ones business
I cant wrap my head around that. There's only 142 tags and hundreds/thousands of people with max points and 30,000+ other individual applications and all of their points. I cant understand how, say even if its only 500 people with max points, can have any where near 17% draw odds when you factor in all of the other evenly weighted "names in the hat".
I'm no statistician, but this is how I see it. Example:
Say you have 30 bonus points (way to high but for an example) and the other 30,000 people have zero points (so just one name in the hat). You are the high point holder by an exponential amount. Roughly speaking, you would have a 30 in 30,000 (0.1%) chance of drawing a tag everyone else would have a 1 in 30,000 chance (0.003%).
In regards to the new seasons and drawings it was updated on the PGC site: https://www.pgc.pa.gov/Wildlife/WildlifeSpecies/Elk/pages/default.aspx
3 different drawings and 3 point pools. Now is your chance to get in on the ground floor of the archery and late antlerless applications!
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MJE2083
Well-known member
I could be way wrong, like I said I don't specifically remember the odds that they stated. I just remember that it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. Maybe it was 1:70. For some reason a "7" sticks in my mind.
Like I said, those were the odds for someone with max points which would have been 17 I believe if you started at the beginning.
Like I said, those were the odds for someone with max points which would have been 17 I believe if you started at the beginning.
std7mag
Well-known member
I hadn't heard about a separate archery season.
From my reading of it, there was one week of elk season. Be it rifle, muzzle loader, or archery.
Problem with the archery was the required orange for elk hunting.
Not sure how close your gonna get with a bow, looking like the Great Pumpkin?
Overlapping deer archery did not require orange.
This will be year 10 for me putting in.
Hopefully next year i'm going out west to hunt.
Would be great if i can talk the Mrs into moving!!
From my reading of it, there was one week of elk season. Be it rifle, muzzle loader, or archery.
Problem with the archery was the required orange for elk hunting.
Not sure how close your gonna get with a bow, looking like the Great Pumpkin?
Overlapping deer archery did not require orange.
This will be year 10 for me putting in.
Hopefully next year i'm going out west to hunt.
Would be great if i can talk the Mrs into moving!!
jdf
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2011
- Messages
- 490
Separate September archery season
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Probably wont have much of an effect at all, with how dense the veg is out there it's not like a rifle hunter is shooting bulls at 400 yards. Killed my bull last year at 45 yards-ish without a stitch of camo and a blaze hat and vest, it's all about scent + movement.
