Owyhee Initiative for Dummies

[1_pointer]

coupled with resignation that no compromise is ever going to make everyone happy.

Is it possible to make everyone happy with a compromise? I think it was someone on here that related something like, NR management's goal is for equal dissatisfaction by all. Give some, get some. I still feel that a cooperative process is a much better mousetrap!

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Nemont:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> "This is America where we work things out," he said. "Hopefully none of us will go away."

EG,
That statement must have been tough for you to swallow.


What was the general mood? Keep working on the OI and iron out the wrinkles or throw out the process and start over? Do you think the points of contention can be fixed?

Nemont </font>[/QUOTE]Nahh, Hanley's comments weren't tough to swallow. Nobody wants to run people out of the cow business, just back onto the deeded property...

As for the General Mood....
I had a number of observations. (The others who were there can chime in..).
</font>

• I think the general mood from the "mainstream" conservationists (Sierra Club, Wilderness Society, ICL, etc...) was that this was as good a deal as we could get, and to get ANY Wilderness during the Dubya administration was a HUGE victory. Even if it was Wilderness with Roads... </font>
• I think CHD and WWP view it as way too many concessions to the Cows.</font>
• Democracy in action is a funny thing, as the bit of internal squabbaling within the Conservation community shows the Ranchers that their is lack of consensus. (Could also be a benefit to the Conservation side, if the Ranchers are worried that this sweetheart deal could get pulled off the table.)</font>
• One way to unite different groups is to find a common enemy, and this was done by identifying the enemy as Fat-Assed ATV Riders. Almost every speaker, including the rancher, said that Public Enemy Number One are the Fat-Assed ATV Riders.</font>
• The guy from Crapo's office didn't have the answers to funding questions that were raised, and that is a big part of it. Without the money, their is nothing in this proposal.</font>
• The Board of Directors is a funny institution that worries many.</font>
• The Science review caused some concern, that if the Ranchers were for it, it must be a bad deal. Old issues about Trust are hard to drop.</font>
• The BLM was getting bashed from both sides of the coin.
  
  </font>

Mike Hanley, an Owyhee rancher, challenged the view that ranchers gave up nothing. In the past decade, ranchers have given up 68 percent of their livestock use allowed in the Owyhees. He praised the process that brought him in front of a largely environmental audience where he received more than polite applause when he was finished.

"This is America where we work things out," he said. "Hopefully none of us will go away."

Ranchers have not given up 68% of their livestock use in the Owyhees because of the O-Initiative. They have given it up because they have been forced to, in order to remediate the damage they caused.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Hangar18:


edit: EG - Good to finally meet you last night. We need to get together in a couple of weeks, as I think I will have some better info for you.

You mean it is gonna take a couple of weeks for you to remember the names you kept forgetting???

I asked a buddy today, and it was a different "Amy" that I was thinking of....

If nothing else, we can make Moosie buy us lunch, since Wylee bought the Beers....

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by 1_pointer:
Nemont- TNC is for biodiversity, so I'm wondering if they think this would be better served by ranches rather than sub-divisions???

See folks, TNC is a pretty good group.

The 45 Ranch that the TNC owns would be tough to subdivide...

 

[Moosie]

I came away thinking A bit different them when I went in. I still have meetings to go to. Talking with Craig Gurkey (SP?) a Tree Hugger (Someone can throw out a Actualy title if they so wish

) and with Idahos F&G Bioligists later this week.

I look at it as ATV Abuse and Cattle Abuse cause Grief to the Deer Habitat. That, is just a Fact. I also see that Cattle are gonig to maintain the same destruction with or without this O.I. With the O.I. at least there is a Body of sage huggers that will be working hand in hand with ranchers either coming up with something or killing each other. Either way works OK by me. So this leads us to the ATV Management plan. I think if one can Be implimented then it might cruve the O.R.V. abuse a little. It will at least keep the Honest ones Honest. Which will benifit the Deer. This makes me look at the O.I. as a Good(er) Idea then when I first looked at it.

That Being said, We're still gathering Info and Asking questions. What I got out of this is the People that are FOR it, know that it's not a Perfect System and Can't Enforce anything anyways. All they can do is "Make recomendations". Going into it I was Lead to believe this will be a "GOVERNING" force that Dictates what transpires in that area. I've walked away with seeing 4 Tree Huggers, 4 Ranchers and 2 random Butt Sniffers on a Board that have to VOTE 8 out of 10 to Agree to even give BLM a Recomendation. Hell, People recomend things all the time, Who cares

 

[Washington Hunter]

sage huggers

LMAO

Never heard that term before!

 

[Moosie]

I just made it up... BUt I think it will stick since there is NO trees in the Owyhees With My next few Enviromental Meetings I have I'll make sure I bring up that phrase 2 times or so durring the conversation. Heck, In a year or so EVERYONE will be saying it .... And you heard it here first folks

 

[Hangar18]

Don't forget about the Juniper.

 

[Moosie]

I actually thought of Juniper Hugger but sage works better

 

[Washington Hunter]

Mooise, you keep going to those environmental meetings, you're gonna turn into a sage hugger, and an ENVIRONMENTALIST.

 

[Muledeer4me]

The funnest thing about this whole procces is that before the OI came out for the public to see Ithaca & Elkgunner couldnt get in enough good words in defending all the org. that were in on the OI.
Now we see them doing a back flip ---because ????
It doesn't fit there radical agenda!!!!!
Now you understand why Jon Marvel and his group wasn't allowed in on this .LOL
Ithaca,Elkgunner and Jon Marvel were only playing nice with these other environmental groups as a way to use them to further there radical RAHCHER HATING agenda!!!
Call me a sagehugger LOL I have to jump on board this along with the other huggers.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Muledeer4me:
The funnest thing about this whole procces is that before the OI came out for the public to see Ithaca & Elkgunner couldnt get in enough good words in defending all the org. that were in on the OI.
Now we see them doing a back flip ---because ????
It doesn't fit there radical agenda!!!!!
Now you understand why Jon Marvel and his group wasn't allowed in on this .LOL
Ithaca,Elkgunner and Jon Marvel were only playing nice with these other environmental groups as a way to use them to further there radical RAHCHER HATING agenda!!!
Call me a sagehugger LOL I have to jump on board this along with the other huggers.

MD,
Please don't accuse me of saying things I have NEVER said. That is simply Libel. Even Ten Beers doesn't make up lies like you have.

I have never supported the PROCESS of the OI, because I don't feel deals like this should be made in back-rooms.

I have no idea where you get the idea I "couldnt get in enough good words in defending all the org. that were in on the OI." I do not think I have ever commented on my thoughts on the Wilderness Society or the Sierra Club, as they related to the OI. As I am not a member of either of them, I don't choose to comment on them.

I have maintained from the first day I spoke with Fred Grant, that the PROCESS WAS FLAWED. And due to a Flawed Process, we should all be skeptical of the results.

After attending the meeting, and talking to more of my friends in Birkenstocks, I think I have more support for the results than I previously did. That is about 180 degrees from your lies, up above.

I think I have adequately mastered the English Language, and do not need you to explain my positions on issues. You seem to have problem with comprehension, and your lies are simply incorrect. If you do have a question about MY position on this issue, or any issue, please ask, and I will likely explain it.

But please don't continue making up lies. We may disagree on many issues, but I doubt you will find me being a liar about your positions. Please don't be a liar about mine.

 

[Muledeer4me]

Hey elkgunner ,screw you!!!!!
You and Ithaca have voiced support for many of the groups that were involved in that issue.
,I wasnt talking about "as it relates to the OI." but in other post through out this forum.
It's your own comprehension that
need's help.


If your saying you and Ithaca havent lied about myself or others on this forum as related to hunting or riding ATV's -then you indeed do have your head up your own ass!!!


You are so full of shit.
Just the statement that you and Ithaca post about (ALL ATV riders are out doing damage makes you both lier's)LOL

If you want to be taken serious , you should learn to tell the whole truth not half of it.
Your pissed because some of the greenie org. that you and Ithaca have voiced support for (relating to other topics before the OI came out) didn't kick the rancher off public land.
You didnt get your BAN on all ATV's.
You didnt get all the land tied up in wilderness that you wanted.
You feel left out of the loop ---------so fricken get over yourself.


Now we all get to comment on it and see where it goes from here.
At least they were able to get over there bad selfs and come up with something, more power to em.
It's a hell of a lot better then anything you or Jon Marvel would come up with.
I care about how you feel about as much as you care about how I feel ,so piss off !!!!!!!!

Im sorry you havent found the respect you think you should have on this forum LOL but thats how it goes.
Keep talking down to everyone ,Im sure that will help you get elevated up to where you think you should be LOL
I know im impressed !!!!!!cough ,cough .

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Muledeer4me:
Hey elkgunner ,screw you!!!!!
You and Ithaca have voiced support for many of the groups that were involved in that issue.
.......
Show me where I have EVER came out in support of the Wilderness Society, Sierra Club, Owyhee Cattlemans Association, People for the Owyhees, or the Borderlands Group.

If your saying you and Ithaca havent lied about myself or others on this forum as related to hunting or riding ATV's -then you indeed do have your head up your own ass!!!
Thank you for acknowledging my Flexibility...


If you want to be taken serious , you should learn to tell the whole truth not half of it. You want the Truth? You can't Handle the Truth." -- Jack Nicholson as Col. Jessup

Your pissed because some of the greenie org. that you and Ithaca have voiced support for (relating to other topics before the OI came out) didn't kick the rancher off public land. I have no idea what this blabber is about? Are you saying I am upset about WWP not being involved, or becasue the "coalition" left the Grazing?

You didnt get your BAN on all ATV's. Not yet, but the "interim" plan restricts them all to roads and designated trails, immediately...

You didnt get all the land tied up in wilderness that you wanted. Got a Half a Million acres, which, given the Dubya administration, would be a huge victory, for Idaho, The Wilderness State. Everywhere else, Dubya is releasing land from WSAs.

You feel left out of the loop ---------so fricken get over yourself. Nope, I really got my first concern, which was everything we wanted on the Rivers. Rivers first, then Wilderness (for deer and sheep), then get rid of the ATVs, and then deal with the Cows.


Now we all get to comment on it and see where it goes from here. Hope you spell better on your comments, than you did in your Tirade....

It's a hell of a lot better then anything you or Jon Marvel would come up with. You're lying.......


I care about how you feel about as much as you care about how I feel ,so piss off !!!!!!!! I actually hate to see someone with such anger, so yes, I do care about you....

Im sorry you havent found the respect you think you should have on this forum LOL but thats how it goes. Why would I want respect from this forum? I just want entertainment....

cough ,cough . You might try some Robitussin for that cough....

 

[Muledeer4me]

"You want the Truth? You can't Handle the Truth." -- Jack Nicholson as Col. Jessup "

Now thats funny,I didnt think you had it in you.
I stand by all I have said,if you aren't in a tizzy about how things came out we wouldnt be having this post fest now would we?

"Thank you for acknowledging my Flexibility..."
Your welcome elkgunner,its just to bad you are only flexible to the point of being able to keep your head in a less then flattering position.


" Not yet, but the "interim" plan restricts them all to roads and designated trails, immediately... "

Somehow you think I don't agree with that ?

"It's a hell of a lot better then anything you or Jon Marvel would come up with."
"You're lying......."
Thats only a matter of what side you take on the issue.
I don't call that lying Elkgunner,its nothing more that a matter of what side of this debate a person is on.
But given how you like to put your spin on everything it's no suprize you would call that a lie.
Grasping is something your good at.

 

[Moosie]

Now I know why Ithica told me to more this between the Fireside and the Jokes.....

When are we going to sit you two down for a beer