Of Interest to Anyone Who Spends Time in Bear Country

[ShortAction]

I thought this article was interesting and figured others would also.

Does Bear Spray Work?

The science is clear, right? Not so fast, according to, well, science.

www.outsideonline.com

By the way, if anyone in the Great Falls, MT area would like a free can of bear spray - I will be returning to Virginia in a week or so and won't be needing it. It was purchased new a couple of weeks ago so has it's full shelf life left. Send me a PM if you want it.

 

[scubohuntr]

Fascinating article. Thank you very much for linking it. I have always suspected that there was something pretty hinky about the tired old statistics that everyone uses.

 

[beginnerhunter]

Kudos to the author for dissecting those studies. Maybe the best way to go about it is for at least one person to carry bear spray and at least one other person carry a firearm.

 

[MThuntr]

The point of “Efficacy of Firearms” wasn’t to arrive at a conclusion on whether or not firearms work but, rather, to analyze the reasons why they didn’t—“poor aim, no time to use them, jammed, etc.,” elaborates Smith.

I don't doubt the ability of a firearm to deter bears but I doubt the ability of many (if not most) shooters to be effective in a situation that escalates quickly. Many are just not prepared to shoot accurately under pressure.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

"To me, this isn’t an argument for or against guns or for or against bear spray. It’s an argument that, despite the presence of deterrents, dealing with an aggressive bear encounter does not involve any sure outcomes. Rather than beginning and ending the conversation with a false statement about bear spray’s efficacy, we should instead acknowledge that recreating safely in bear country requires training and knowledge—not dogma."

 

[ShortAction]

Many are just not prepared to shoot accurately under pressure.

Difficult to practice for that.

 

[Straight Arrow]

The point of “Efficacy of Firearms” wasn’t to arrive at a conclusion on whether or not firearms work but, rather, to analyze the reasons why they didn’t—“poor aim, no time to use them, jammed, etc.,” elaborates Smith.

I don't doubt the ability of a firearm to deter bears but I doubt the ability of many (if not most) shooters to be effective in a situation that escalates quickly. Many are just not prepared to shoot accurately under pressure.

True. And the reality is that many bear attacks involve a victim pretty much helpless, but with a partner who can mitigate the extent of harm by use of a firearm or bear spray or both.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I don't doubt the ability of a firearm to deter bears but I doubt the ability of many (if not most) shooters to be effective in a situation that escalates quickly. Many are just not prepared to shoot accurately under pressure.

Agreed, also per the article there is a difference in efficacy and bear behavior depending on the type of encounter. They established the difference between a hiker's surprise encounter with a bear versus a hunter's encounter, the underlying context being a bear trying to take a kill from you. I carry bear spray mainly for the former situation, surprise encounters are probably the most probable way hunters will encounter bears and bear spray is very effective in these interactions. When it comes to attacks, especially predatory ones it seems like you have more control over the situation with your behavior, i.e. how you approach a kill, how you go about butchering, and how you hang/transport your meat. As I'm writing this I'm thinking of Remi + Steven and the meat tree episode and their discussion of what they did wrong and could have done; not dropping their guard, not hanging around and working quickly, etc. to keep the attack from happening in the first place.

Essentially bear spray is an effective method of diffusing surprise attacks, critical thinking is probably the best way of avoiding an attack, once an attack has started a firearm is likely going to be the most effective means of living through the encounter, provided you know what you know what your doing.

 

[onpoint]

The G. Bear chronicles.....
So you're hiking up this creek with your bow and face paint next week. Reeks of elk. Neat. A nice down draft breeze is keeping you cool - the same one that pushes your scent away from the way you're going.
Note the sight distance. Note the sound masking babbling creek. Note your stealthy approach. Note you're hunting alone. Note the abundance of bear foods.
Note the confidence you feel in the bear spray and S&W riding on your belt/pack strap.
Note the reality of how fast you can step over a large downfall Doug Fir log, pop up a cut bank, emerge around a clump of this shit or that.
Is most anyone actually trained and practiced enough for what this topic addresses? I've trained, practiced, and spent copious amounts of time, luckily w/o incident, in these places. Ain't yet comfortable with my chances - it doesn't stop me, but really - let's be realistic. Most likely nothing will happen, .............
BTW, this is a trib of Tom Miner Creek - G Bear Central. Spent way too much time in there. It is the Heart of Darkness. The Gubment bear guys are probably fielding calls as we speak, "Is Tom Miner a good place to get in trouble (?) - I heard it's a good place to stick a good bull........"

And some confident bowhunter will be heading up this particular creek next week - quaranteed.


Anyways, think, I'll head up into Taylor Fork, do a little hopper fishing.......................................

 

[rideold]

That's some interesting reading. Kind of pushes me a little closer to carrying a sidearm while bow hunting. The training part is what has always stopped me.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Anyways, think, I'll head up into Taylor Fork, do a little hopper fishing.......................................

You know what ya otta try is a hopper, but like with a hopper dropper....that's two hoppers

 

[JohnDeereGreen]

First, this is really interesting and thank you ShortAction for sharing it. FWIW, I carry both. Spray and my Glock 20 with Buffalo Bore 220gr hard cast bullets. Spray goes in a holster on my pack belt and Glock goes in a chest holster that attaches to my bino harness.

Second, I'll ask a question: for those of us who elect to carry a firearm, what do folks here think are effective ways to drill for a bear encounter? Has anyone done a firearms course on this? My typical practice consists of drawing from the chest holster+dry fire, and at the range, drawing and trying to put three quick shots onto a steel plate from 10 yards. But, I am far from an expert and curious to hear what others think/practice.

I'm not suggesting that one can be totally prepared for this. Maybe just somewhat better prepared.

 

[Irrelevant]

You know what ya otta try is a hopper, but like with a hopper dropper....that's two hoppers

The cuttierainbrowns love that second hopper.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The cuttierainbrowns love that second hopper.

@onpoint seems like a guy who is gonna use a hopper dropper with a dropper hopper... I mean... are you kidding me...

 

[RockinU]

@onpoint seems like a guy who is gonna use a hopper dropper with a dropper hopper... I mean... are you kidding me...

Myself I'm a master-bait fisherman...but always been a little fly-curious...

 

[Hem]

The G. Bear chronicles.....
So you're hiking up this creek with your bow and face paint next week. Reeks of elk. Neat. A nice down draft breeze is keeping you cool - the same one that pushes your scent away from the way you're going.
Note the sight distance. Note the sound masking babbling creek. Note your stealthy approach. Note you're hunting alone. Note the abundance of bear foods.
Note the confidence you feel in the bear spray and S&W riding on your belt/pack strap.
Note the reality of how fast you can step over a large downfall Doug Fir log, pop up a cut bank, emerge around a clump of this shit or that.
Is most anyone actually trained and practiced enough for what this topic addresses? I've trained, practiced, and spent copious amounts of time, luckily w/o incident, in these places. Ain't yet comfortable with my chances - it doesn't stop me, but really - let's be realistic. Most likely nothing will happen, .............
BTW, this is a trib of Tom Miner Creek - G Bear Central. Spent way too much time in there. It is the Heart of Darkness. The Gubment bear guys are probably fielding calls as we speak, "Is Tom Miner a good place to get in trouble (?) - I heard it's a good place to stick a good bull........"

And some confident bowhunter will be heading up this particular creek next week - quaranteed.View attachment 113215


Anyways, think, I'll head up into Taylor Fork, do a little hopper fishing.......................................

Your WAY late fishing today..

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Myself I'm a master-bait fisherman...but always been a little fly-curious...

I think we're all a little fly-curious... but that's ok

 

[JLS]

@onpoint seems like a guy who is gonna use a hopper dropper with a dropper hopper... I mean... are you kidding me...

snap it......

 

[JLS]

Back to the article in question, there is no distinction made in the data as to the TYPE of firearm. I guarantee you I will have a much higher chance of making a first round hit with a long gun than I will a pistol. Also, the long gun round is much more likely to inflict a hit that stops the attack than that from a pistol. Of the attacks in Alaska, I'm willing to bet the hunter all had rather large bore rifles.

There are way too many variables in here to definitively say one way or the other. Stress makes people do some funny things, like dump a full magazine out of their Glock when they draw it. Or rack the slide when they don't need to. Or worse, short stroke the slide and create a malfunction. Of, have an empty chamber and forget. The list goes on.

A sprayed bear can sure come back for seconds. A dead bear won't, but a bear with several rounds of handgun ammo in non-fatal wounds very well might.

This may seem like an argument full of contradictions with no end point. It is. Understand everything you use has pros and cons, and you should understand going in what those are. Be proficient with whatever you carry, and remember the best way to survive an encounter is to avoid it. It's ironic archery hunters do absolutely everything wrong in grizzly country.

And, don't stick your face in hot pots.

 

[rideold]

Second, I'll ask a question: for those of us who elect to carry a firearm, what do folks here think are effective ways to drill for a bear encounter?

I haven't done it but I've heard it suggested to practice shooting at a ball bouncing down a hill at you.