NV FCFS - 5 Nelson Ram tags violated 90/10 allocation

[Jdp010]

NV FCFS violated 10% NR cap by total of 5 Ram tags...

7 Nelson Ram tags reissued using NDOW FCFS - all seven tags were returned by residents (no surprise there). However, 5 of those 7 were snatched up by non-residents. All 5 NR Ram tags are in violation of the 10% NR cap that we are supposed to have in place. Unfortunately, NDOW enforces 90/10 only for the draw, not for reissued tags/FCFS.

The bull elk tag data also demonstrates this same problem where over 50% of FCFS "antlered elk tags" were snatched up by NRs - almost all of them in violation of the 10% NR cap.

As a NV resident hunter are you OK with this? If not, please email every wildlife commissioner:

• Tiffany East (Chair), [email protected]
• Tommy Caviglia (Vice Chair), [email protected]
• Tom Barnes, [email protected]
• Jon Almberg, [email protected]
• Shane Rogers, [email protected]
• Alana Wise, [email protected]
• Casey D. Kiel, [email protected]
• David McNinch, [email protected]
• Ron Pierini, [email protected]

Why does NDOW want to violate the cap with FCFS? Follow the Money - see the FCFS outcomes slide. $173,053 in double sales of tags due to FCFS and the vast majority of it ($127,736) was from NR tags. Frankly, just increase resident tag cost rather than giving away trophy tags to NRs. Better yet, don't make the returned tag option so easy/cheap for residents and then FCFS is no longer even necessary.

Why not just offer those 5 ram tags to applicants who had that tag in position 2-5 on their app? Rather than so narrowly defining "elgible alternate" as only someone who had that tag in position #1?

See slide at 2:19:02 of the Jan, 28, 2022 Nevada Wildlife commission meeting (Youtube) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNL-4_JPArQ

See continued discussion at 27:50 of the Jan, 29 meeting. Where the agency confirms the commission have the power to limit NR FCFS for Rocky BHS/Goat. So the commission clearly has the power to also enforce 90/10 for all hunt codes for FCFS.

 

[rmyoung1]

The bigger issue: Nevada has 7 people dumb enough to turn back a desert ram tag.

 

[Schaaf]

The bigger issue: Nevada has 7 people dumb enough to turn back a desert ram tag.

Yeah, WTF???

 

[Jdp010]

NV Residents return quality Desert Ram tags, Bull Elk and Mule Deer tags all the time! It only costs them $120 to turn it back in, they get ALL their points back AND even get a point for the current year! And most of them can be turned back in as late as 5pm the night before the season opener. YES, the commission should make this harder for residents to do - especially now that we know the vast majority of these tags are snatched back up by NRs in FCFS.

A NR would sacrifice 10x as much ($1201) to turn the tag back in. And, he wouldn't ever do so because NR odds dictate that he would be unlikely to ever draw it again.

A resident knows that he will only have to wait a few more years for a higher quality ram/bull tag, so they will return a mid-tier tag with only that $120 penalty.

Give Nevada resident juniors 24 hours to obtain returned tags on FCFS. Then, after 24 hours a NR/adult can obtain the tag ONLY if the 10% NR cap will not be violated.

 

[jeremys4]

As a life long Nevadan 6 generations deep on both sides of my grandmas I’m fully in favor of these tags going nonres. Fcfs is a great program only sucks for guys like me who aren’t in front of a computer all day. It’s not like they went to auction and highest bidder gets them. Move on sorry 90-10 was broken but at least the tags were probably hunted.

 

[RobertD]

The hair splitting on hunting forums over who gets what tag is getting out of hand

 

[HONEYBADGER]

NV Residents return quality Desert Ram tags, Bull Elk and Mule Deer tags all the time! It only costs them $120 to turn it back in, they get ALL their points back AND even get a point for the current year! And most of them can be turned back in as late as 5pm the night before the season opener. YES, the commission should make this harder for residents to do - especially now that we know the vast majority of these tags are snatched back up by NRs in FCFS.

A NR would sacrifice 10x as much ($1201) to turn the tag back in. And, he wouldn't ever do so because NR odds dictate that he would be unlikely to ever draw it again.

A resident knows that he will only have to wait a few more years for a higher quality ram/bull tag, so they will return a mid-tier tag with only that $120 penalty.

Give Nevada resident juniors 24 hours to obtain returned tags on FCFS. Then, after 24 hours a NR/adult can obtain the tag ONLY if the 10% NR cap will not be violated.

This right here. Nevada residents have been playing the tag return scam game for a long long time. Don't want the tags given to whoever make it more difficult to return tags.

 

[Jdp010]

The hair splitting on hunting forums over who gets what tag is getting out of hand

Apologies – I can see how all this banter gets difficult to read for someone who lives east of the Rockies.

There aren’t any comparable tags in most of the central/SE United States for the residents of those states to get possessive about. I’m sure there are a few trophy whitetail tags I am neglecting. And it would only be natural for residents of those states to want liberal NR tag allocation from the western states.

It is unfortunate that those citizens in the central/SE are most negatively impacted by the western states battling with reciprocal 90/10 quotas (and other forms of discrimination). A resident of Tennessee (for example) doesn’t have a similar hand to play – and that is unfortunate in a sense.

As a residents of Nevada, I believe we should respond to discrimination by other states by strictly enforcing the NV 10% NR cap. The discrimination deserving a response is, 1) WY 10% (or less) NR cap on Big 5, 2) complete de-valuing of WY PP purchases, 3) WY NR wilderness rule, 4) ID/MT price increases and use of 20-40x NR tag price multipliers.

But instead of responding in kind to protect resident interests, the folks at NDOW dreamt up “Residency Agnostic” FCFS. And Nevada has stuck to a 10x multiplier for NR tag differential cost. Whereas some other states (ID/MT) have tag pricing that use a 20-40x NR multiplier.

We cannot exert political influence outside our own states. It was only feel-good political theater that the WY Task Force took the time to take NR comments. But NV residents can email the commission members (above) to be heard. Please listen to the Jan, 29 meeting (link above) – the commissioners clearly state that they are expecting to hear from residents about those 5 ram tags and ~50 bull tags that exceeded the NR cap. If you make yourself heard, we can change FCFS for 2022 as Kalkomey is currently in the process of coding changes.

 

[Gr8bawana]

NV FCFS violated 10% NR cap by total of 5 Ram tags...

7 Nelson Ram tags reissued using NDOW FCFS - all seven tags were returned by residents (no surprise there). However, 5 of those 7 were snatched up by non-residents. All 5 NR Ram tags are in violation of the 10% NR cap that we are supposed to have in place. Unfortunately, NDOW enforces 90/10 only for the draw, not for reissued tags/FCFS.

The bull elk tag data also demonstrates this same problem where over 50% of FCFS "antlered elk tags" were snatched up by NRs - almost all of them in violation of the 10% NR cap.

As a NV resident hunter are you OK with this? If not, please email every wildlife commissioner:

• Tiffany East (Chair), [email protected]
• Tommy Caviglia (Vice Chair), [email protected]
• Tom Barnes, [email protected]
• Jon Almberg, [email protected]
• Shane Rogers, [email protected]
• Alana Wise, [email protected]
• Casey D. Kiel, [email protected]
• David McNinch, [email protected]
• Ron Pierini, [email protected]

Why does NDOW want to violate the cap with FCFS? Follow the Money - see the FCFS outcomes slide. $173,053 in double sales of tags due to FCFS and the vast majority of it ($127,736) was from NR tags. Frankly, just increase resident tag cost rather than giving away trophy tags to NRs. Better yet, don't make the returned tag option so easy/cheap for residents and then FCFS is no longer even necessary.

Why not just offer those 5 ram tags to applicants who had that tag in position 2-5 on their app? Rather than so narrowly defining "elgible alternate" as only someone who had that tag in position #1?

See slide at 2:19:02 of the Jan, 28, 2022 Nevada Wildlife commission meeting (Youtube) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNL-4_JPArQ

See continued discussion at 27:50 of the Jan, 29 meeting. Where the agency confirms the commission have the power to limit NR FCFS for Rocky BHS/Goat. So the commission clearly has the power to also enforce 90/10 for all hunt codes for FCFS.

View attachment 215731

View attachment 215730





View attachment 215732

NV FCFS violated 10% NR cap by total of 5 Ram tags...

7 Nelson Ram tags reissued using NDOW FCFS - all seven tags were returned by residents (no surprise there). However, 5 of those 7 were snatched up by non-residents. All 5 NR Ram tags are in violation of the 10% NR cap that we are supposed to have in place. Unfortunately, NDOW enforces 90/10 only for the draw, not for reissued tags/FCFS.

The bull elk tag data also demonstrates this same problem where over 50% of FCFS "antlered elk tags" were snatched up by NRs - almost all of them in violation of the 10% NR cap.

As a NV resident hunter are you OK with this? If not, please email every wildlife commissioner:

• Tiffany East (Chair), [email protected]
• Tommy Caviglia (Vice Chair), [email protected]
• Tom Barnes, [email protected]
• Jon Almberg, [email protected]
• Shane Rogers, [email protected]
• Alana Wise, [email protected]
• Casey D. Kiel, [email protected]
• David McNinch, [email protected]
• Ron Pierini, [email protected]

Why does NDOW want to violate the cap with FCFS? Follow the Money - see the FCFS outcomes slide. $173,053 in double sales of tags due to FCFS and the vast majority of it ($127,736) was from NR tags. Frankly, just increase resident tag cost rather than giving away trophy tags to NRs. Better yet, don't make the returned tag option so easy/cheap for residents and then FCFS is no longer even necessary.

Why not just offer those 5 ram tags to applicants who had that tag in position 2-5 on their app? Rather than so narrowly defining "elgible alternate" as only someone who had that tag in position #1?

See slide at 2:19:02 of the Jan, 28, 2022 Nevada Wildlife commission meeting (Youtube) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNL-4_JPArQ

See continued discussion at 27:50 of the Jan, 29 meeting. Where the agency confirms the commission have the power to limit NR FCFS for Rocky BHS/Goat. So the commission clearly has the power to also enforce 90/10 for all hunt codes for FCFS.

View attachment 215731

View attachment 215730





View attachment 215732

 

[Elknr]

Apologies – I can see how all this banter gets difficult to read for someone who lives east of the Rockies.

There aren’t any comparable tags in most of the central/SE United States for the residents of those states to get possessive about. I’m sure there are a few trophy whitetail tags I am neglecting. And it would only be natural for residents of those states to want liberal NR tag allocation from the western states.

It is unfortunate that those citizens in the central/SE are most negatively impacted by the western states battling with reciprocal 90/10 quotas (and other forms of discrimination). A resident of Tennessee (for example) doesn’t have a similar hand to play – and that is unfortunate in a sense.

As a residents of Nevada, I believe we should respond to discrimination by other states by strictly enforcing the NV 10% NR cap. The discrimination deserving a response is, 1) WY 10% (or less) NR cap on Big 5, 2) complete de-valuing of WY PP purchases, 3) WY NR wilderness rule, 4) ID/MT price increases and use of 20-40x NR tag price multipliers.

But instead of responding in kind to protect resident interests, the folks at NDOW dreamt up “Residency Agnostic” FCFS. And Nevada has stuck to a 10x multiplier for NR tag differential cost. Whereas some other states (ID/MT) have tag pricing that use a 20-40x NR multiplier.

We cannot exert political influence outside our own states. It was only feel-good political theater that the WY Task Force took the time to take NR comments. But NV residents can email the commission members (above) to be heard. Please listen to the Jan, 29 meeting (link above) – the commissioners clearly state that they are expecting to hear from residents about those 5 ram tags and ~50 bull tags that exceeded the NR cap. If you make yourself heard, we can change FCFS for 2022 as Kalkomey is currently in the process of coding changes.

I’m a NR but I still sent an email.

I’m a nr and can totally see this being a money making thing. If a resident drew a sheep tag was offered 1-2 grand or much more to know the exact day the tag was returned.
I’m sure plenty of nr would love to buy
Knowledge of when the tag was returned.
Even if each nr payed a few hundred dollars for the knowledge. And have a bunch of people or bots waiting for it to come up. And it probably isn’t against the law is it? IMO. But I can see non residents like myself get a rush out of waiting for something like a sheep tag come up.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

its all about the money,,im sure nevada loves the $1200 non res incoming money!! question is why would anybody,resident turn back a desert sheep tag??they dont ever come easy???one of the most sought after tags in the west!!

 

[LuketheDog]

Not sending emails, hoping to to pick up a NV sheep tag soon!

 

[lifesupport4u]

Not sending emails, hoping to to pick up a NV sheep tag soon!

Yup, guess I need to figure out there leftover system!

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

ive got 10 points in for desert bhs,,hope this year will be the one.ill take any!!!id be happy with the worst unit they have.still microscopic odds!!.

 

[Jdp010]

question is why would anybody,resident turn back a desert sheep tag??they dont ever come easy???

Yes, hard to feel sorry for those seven NV Residents that returned those ram tags and caused this. I know guys who are 30% draw odd for the attached/returned 134/251 ram tag. And 50-70% draw odds for lesser tags and can do this AGAIN in 2022 and other residents have to live with the fallout of the unilateral action of their co-resident.

Maybe the residents that returns ram tags really couldn’t hunt/scout in 2021. Or, just couldn’t find a big one. Or, maybe he is selling his TRK (Tag Return Knowledge) to outfitters or just tipping buddies with inside info.

I find it much easier to feel bad for the 393 Residents who had that EXACT TAG on their NV app, but NDOW bypassed them altogether to give the tag to an NR who did not even have to apply in the draw. Most of those 393 Residents will NEVER know what NDOW did to them. And they don’t know about the click farms on high speed commercial trunk lines at the Tag Application Services that caused 60% the high quality portion of tags on FCFS to convert from RES to NR status. Residents on a neighborhood internet connection are portions of a second behind and stand little chance on FCFS in 2022 with the planned “real time refresh”. Especially now that so many more NRs know about FCFS and will use it exclusively and not even apply in the NV main draw (a very smart strategy for low/no point NRs going forward).

 

[The Hedgehog]

Boo @?$!ng hoo. Congrats to the nonresidents that are hunting sheep the dumb residents didn’t want..

 

[Labman]

And they don’t know about the click farms on high speed commercial trunk lines at the Tag Application Services that caused 60% the high quality portion of tags on FCFS to convert from RES to NR status.

Who runs these “click farms?” They don’t do a great job at advertising and some of us could use their help. Surprised they don’t look for customers on sites like this.

I wish more applicants would take this advice and not apply in the main draw, regardless of the points they have. It’s a great idea.

Especially now that so many more NRs know about FCFS and will use it exclusively and not even apply in the NV main draw (a very smart strategy for low/no point NRs going forward).

 

[Thx1138]

Obviously the NV Wildlife Department thinks the 10% rule only applies to the initial draw.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Yes, hard to feel sorry for those seven NV Residents that returned those ram tags and caused this. I know guys who are 30% draw odd for the attached/returned 134/251 ram tag. And 50-70% draw odds for lesser tags and can do this AGAIN in 2022 and other residents have to live with the fallout of the unilateral action of their co-resident.

Maybe the residents that returns ram tags really couldn’t hunt/scout in 2021. Or, just couldn’t find a big one. Or, maybe he is selling his TRK (Tag Return Knowledge) to outfitters or just tipping buddies with inside info.

I find it much easier to feel bad for the 393 Residents who had that EXACT TAG on their NV app, but NDOW bypassed them altogether to give the tag to an NR who did not even have to apply in the draw. Most of those 393 Residents will NEVER know what NDOW did to them. And they don’t know about the click farms on high speed commercial trunk lines at the Tag Application Services that caused 60% the high quality portion of tags on FCFS to convert from RES to NR status. Residents on a neighborhood internet connection are portions of a second behind and stand little chance on FCFS in 2022 with the planned “real time refresh”. Especially now that so many more NRs know about FCFS and will use it exclusively and not even apply in the NV main draw (a very smart strategy for low/no point NRs going forward).


View attachment 216905

No amount of you crying about it here is going to get you a sheep tag. Give it a rest man!

 

[rogerthat]

I would venture a guess that most on here are not NV residents. Your time would be better spent drumming up support elsewhere. Most of these clowns on here only support what benefits them the most so as nr’s fcfs sounds pretty good. Heck I didn’t even know it was a thing