Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[8andcounting]

Was fun while it lasted by my Montana trips are about done . Sad really .

 

[8andcounting]

Too bad the governor is just a YES man . I’d say the chance of a VETo is less than 1%

 

[timmy]

Was fun while it lasted by my Montana trips are about done . Sad really .

I suspect you will be back. Went on a hike tonight and saw some bucks that could turn into two maybe even 3 points. Not many but they are there.

 

[Eric Albus]

Honestly, after 118 pages, if you can't see how handing out a public resource to a small number of individuals to profit off of while the rest of us get the scraps is welfare, then we're just spinning the tires.

It's tough to argue with socialists. They just don't understand reality.

Ben, come on. I can see your point, to a degree, of giving privilege to folks wishing to use the service of an outfitter over those who wish to DIY. Is this fair, probably not, but then I've always been told, "life ain't fair". Was it fair to myself and many other outfitters in the state who paid large sums of money to acquire their NCHU, only to have a ballot initiative take it away? (and I won't go into the signature gathering crap that happened to get it to ballot) That cost many of us 100's of thousands in value. Did we whine? Did we sue the state? No.

637, is this what I wanted? No. I can see problems with it. It needs some sideboards put on it, sooner than later. You stated in a thread somewhere not to long ago that it was not us who broke the trust. So maybe all concerned parties need to sit down, catch their breathe and come to an accord.

Look at some of the positive to come with this bill, like the money for access. The programs it will fund directly compete with outfitters for access. Some of the landowners have been offered huge money with the PAL program, far more than any outfitter could, would, or should pay for access.

 

[Eric Albus]

I suspect you will be back. Went on a hike tonight and saw some bucks that could turn into two maybe even 3 points. Not many but they are there.

This is the one area that we can concur on wholeheartedly. It is unconscionable what happens in NE MT during the rut. Now we have a 2 week extension. I am very worried about what will happen this fall in Reg.6. Resident sales of hunting/fishing license are thru the roof. The influx of NR flooding into Western MT is unreal, I have heard number of 40-50K more ppl in the Flathead area. Our mule deer need protection from the oncoming slaughter.

 

[mtmiller]

This is the one area that we can concur on wholeheartedly. It is unconscionable what happens in NE MT during the rut. Now we have a 2 week extension. I am very worried about what will happen this fall in Reg.6. Resident sales of hunting/fishing license are thru the roof. The influx of NR flooding into Western MT is unreal, I have heard number of 40-50K more ppl in the Flathead area. Our mule deer need protection from the oncoming slaughter.

If only there was a MOGA lobby presence.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben, come on. I can see your point, to a degree, of giving privilege to folks wishing to use the service of an outfitter over those who wish to DIY. Is this fair, probably not, but then I've always been told, "life ain't fair". Was it fair to myself and many other outfitters in the state who paid large sums of money to acquire their NCHU, only to have a ballot initiative take it away? (and I won't go into the signature gathering crap that happened to get it to ballot) That cost many of us 100's of thousands in value. Did we whine? Did we sue the state? No.

637, is this what I wanted? No. I can see problems with it. It needs some sideboards put on it, sooner than later. You stated in a thread somewhere not to long ago that it was not us who broke the trust. So maybe all concerned parties need to sit down, catch their breathe and come to an accord.

Look at some of the positive to come with this bill, like the money for access. The programs it will fund directly compete with outfitters for access. Some of the landowners have been offered huge money with the PAL program, far more than any outfitter could, would, or should pay for access.

If the Gov't provides you with the product necessary to do business while taking it away from someone else, that's crony capitalism at best, and plain old socialism for a supported class in reality. Embrace your socialist roots, Eric.

And MOGA did whine & did sue. Then MOGA set about turning licensing code into a mess of epic proportions through the experimentation with various points schemes to try and get to where you are today: guaranteed tags. MOGA also tried to set seasons in statute in order to get back to the stranglehold on access to elk in some of those 22 bundled districts. There were countless proposals to increase permits in those districts, asks for FWP to break the law and issue unlimited licenses.

You say 637 has problems that need to be rectified - totally agree. But it was you who pushed this through, not resident & DIY nonresidents. This is a pattern that's been repeated for 20 years: Write really shitty laws because you can, then complain about how messed up FWP is without ever recognizing your own culpability in the mess.

Money for access isn't a problem. There's plenty for it, and it's not that difficult to get more. This session alone, there is $4 million for new access on the lower yellowstone, $8 million more for Habitat MT through the weed money & an increase in allocation, more for maintenance & we've grown access programs in spite of a lack of effort from groups like yours. Dangling the carrot of access while we already have a bushel full in those programs is disingenuous.

But this is how MT works: Bad ideas come forward during the session, get passed into law, then the same people who got them passed immediately start to undermine those laws and demand more changes. HB 637 steals $1 million from landowners who engage in the Upland Game Bird Habitat program to stock pheasants on WMA's. It undermines the good work MOGA did on the lion handling issue in 2017 & 2019 because you saw the ability to line your own pockets. Now Lion outfitters in NW MT got screwed out of quality hunting in favor of killing more lions and opportunity for NR Landowners to run dogs & host hunting parties on their own land, and public land too.

But it's cool, because your gov't cheese was in there. Efff everyone else. So when the initiative comes to undo this all, remember that life isn't fair, and you shouldn't whine or sue.

 

[Addicting]

Thanks! That’s clear now. Yes I have 2 points and three when I apply next year.

All the elk may be dead by then.

 

[8andcounting]

I suspect you will be back. Went on a hike tonight and saw some bucks that could turn into two maybe even 3 points. Not many but they are there.

I’ll get a landowner sponsored deer tag . Guessing should be able to draw that almost every year . I just need to get a dam general tag one more time to draw my elk permit . After that I’m done with general tag . So yes I’ll be back . I don’t hunt eastern MT so that 3 point will have a chance at a long life

 

[huntin24/7]

Don’t you mean that 3 point still won’t have a chance at a long life?

 

[8andcounting]

Don’t you mean that 3 point still won’t have a chance at a long life?

Should be a lot less crowded in some public land areas when outfitted clients hold a majority of NR tags . DIY hunter numbers will be way way way down which will be good for Montana residents that hunt those public areas like SE Montana

 

[golfer]

Should be a lot less crowded in some public land areas when outfitted clients hold a majority of NR tags . DIY hunter numbers will be way way way down which will be good for Montana residents that hunt those public areas like SE Montana

I don’t think Hunter numbers will be down. We will still see the same if not more pressure from all our “new” residents to make up that lost diy nonresident pressure.

 

[BuzzH]

This is the one area that we can concur on wholeheartedly. It is unconscionable what happens in NE MT during the rut. Now we have a 2 week extension. I am very worried about what will happen this fall in Reg.6. Resident sales of hunting/fishing license are thru the roof. The influx of NR flooding into Western MT is unreal, I have heard number of 40-50K more ppl in the Flathead area. Our mule deer need protection from the oncoming slaughter.

Who cares...obviously MOGA doesn't...those extra 3000 tags will help the problem with mule deer.

 

[Gevock]

Outfitter License Bill Creates Tags For Special Interests - Montana Wildlife Federation

Early in the 2021 Montana Legislature, the Senate Fish and Game committee heard from more than a thousand hunters who spoke strongly against a bill to create

montanawildlife.org

Outfitter license bill creates tags for special interests

 

[Gevock]

Contact the governor's office today and request a veto of HB 637

 

[antlerradar]

Should be a lot less crowded in some public land areas when outfitted clients hold a majority of NR tags . DIY hunter numbers will be way way way down which will be good for Montana residents that hunt those public areas like SE Montana

Probably not much change in hunting pressure. Now if we could declare everyone living west of Billings a nonresident we might get somewhere.

 

[8andcounting]

Contact the governor's office today and request a veto of HB 637

Hahahahaha hahaha

no seriously
Hahahaha

Funny stuff right there .....

 

[8andcounting]

Contact the governor's office today and request a veto of HB 637

Don’t get me wrong - I hope he does . But I think it’s a tiny chance maybe 1-5% that he actually veto’s it

 

[406dn]

Probably not much change in hunting pressure. Now if we could declare everyone living west of Billings a nonresident we might get somewhere.

Ouch,,,,,,,, that puts me just on the wrong side of your line. Not to worry too much, I haven't hunted deer east of Billings in a long time.

Now I might like a line where anyone east of say Laurel is a non resident concerning elk tags.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

Outfitter License Bill Creates Tags For Special Interests - Montana Wildlife Federation

Early in the 2021 Montana Legislature, the Senate Fish and Game committee heard from more than a thousand hunters who spoke strongly against a bill to create

montanawildlife.org

Outfitter license bill creates tags for special interests

Copy & Paste from the letter to our Gov:



If your looking for a Club, Group, Association or Foundation to support? This list might be a place to begin.....at least to get the signature process stated.