Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[Ben Lamb]

How are they welfare tags in your opinion?

Honestly, after 118 pages, if you can't see how handing out a public resource to a small number of individuals to profit off of while the rest of us get the scraps is welfare, then we're just spinning the tires.

It's tough to argue with socialists. They just don't understand reality.

 

[sacountry]

Prior to I-161.....the money did go to Block Management. Ask a few on here as to why they carried the torch for it to go away.

So the likely problem there was that not enough money must have been going into the Block program to make the OSL stick. I don't know how much of a premium a NR hunter is willing to pay for a guaranteed tag with an outfitter, but lets say it's $3,000 for a NR combo tag. That's a pretty expensive deer and elk when you add outfitter fees on top of it, but if the state could sell 2500 of those a year....that'd be $7.5M for the Block program. Last I knew, FWP was spending about $6M on Block Management.

If you want to keep a benefit, you have to make it hard for the other side to want to take it away.

 

[westbranch]

Honestly, after 118 pages, if you can't see how handing out a public resource to a small number of individuals to profit off of while the rest of us get the scraps, then we're just spinning the tires.

It's tough to argue with socialists. They just don't understand reality.

Its only socialism when other people (mainly poors) get the handouts.

 

[Schaaf]

50/50 this an Albus burner account.

“And by the way did anyone see how handsome that one guy was that lived over in eastern Montana near HWY2?!”

 

[4ohSick]

Doubt it.

Plot twist, it's Big Shooter's burner account

 

[----]

Your half right.

Any chance you'd want to enlighten me on what wasn't correct in my post?

 

[Big Shooter]

Any chance you'd want to enlighten me on what wasn't correct in my post?

When you stated that a lot of the elk and deer tags for Nonresidents weren’t capped. I may have misunderstood you. I do that sometimes.

 

[Gerald Martin]

When you stated that a lot of the elk and deer tags for Nonresidents weren’t capped. I may have misunderstood you. I do that sometimes.

OTC B- licenses aren’t capped or limited to 10% for NR. A NR can buy a cow or doe tag OTC in several areas.

 

[----]

When you stated that a lot of the elk and deer tags for Nonresidents weren’t capped. I may have misunderstood you. I do that sometimes.

That's correct, there are deer and elk tags that don't have a nonresident cap.

FWP posts regulations at- https://fwp.mt.gov/hunt/regulations

 

[Big Shooter]

That's correct, there are deer and elk tags that don't have a nonresident cap.

FWP posts regulations at- https://fwp.mt.gov/hunt/regulations

My bad. I was thinking of the 17,000 and the 4,600. I get tunnel vision at times. My apologies.

 

[300stw]

It’s laughable how much people on here hate outfitters. Do you think the private land is going to magically open up without them? They serve a purpose but if you want to screw the outfitter work on changing the season structure. Let’s all get behind that. Wait that might take opportunities away though... that might not be popular.

outfitters are probably the only way to get private land harbored elk taken care of,

 

[mtmiller]

outfitters are probably the only way to get private land harbored elk taken care of,

ya mean that shoulder thingy ain't workin'?

 

[MTGomer]

My email to the governor:

"
Mr. Gianforte,

I am a licensed big game hunting guide and a 5th generation Montanan that comes from a family with a long history of ranching, hunting and outfitting in Montana.

I'm concerned with the language that was amended into HB 637, which contains ideas that were soundly defeated previously in the legislative session, and which were struck down in Initiative 161 in 2010.
The idea that ranchers and outfitters should rely on or have guaranteed tags made available to them, and their non resident clientele goes against the rich history of wildlife resources being a public trust asset belonging to all Montanans. Hunting is seeing a renaissance with the Covid19 pandemic, with interest in Western big game hunting as high as its been in recent history. Montana's rapid growth, unlimited resident licenses, the renewed interest in hunting will add additional stress to the resource as is, without creating thousands more Non-resident licenses.
I worry that the interest of the resource and the management of it based upon biological metrics is taking a back seat to special interests and private profits.
Please veto HB 637 and maintain Montana's legacy of managing elk and allocating harvest under the North American Model, which states that wildlife shall be managed scientifically and as a public trust resource. The outfitting industry is robust. It is made up of hard working, rugged individuals that earn their business by developing lasting relationships and providing a valuable service. Reliance on government welfare and handouts only serves to weaken individuals and industries in the long term. As a conservative, a successful business man, a leader and a Christian, I think you know this.

Thank you for your time."

 

[Buffs35]

outfitters are probably the only way to get private land harbored elk taken care of,

Yeah gall damnit, gotta take care of those pesky elk.

 

[300stw]

i dont know if shoulder seasons are working. i keep seeing the quotes about harbored elk , there not getting counted in elk plan ect,,,,
seems like a way to get alot of money out of those harbored elk everyine talks about,,,,

 

[sacountry]

It’s laughable how much people on here hate outfitters. Do you think the private land is going to magically open up without them? They serve a purpose but if you want to screw the outfitter work on changing the season structure. Let’s all get behind that. Wait that might take opportunities away though... that might not be popular.

I don't hate outfitters. I applaud any small business person trying to make a living for their family. It's completely legal so no issues at all. I also respect Eric Albus for sticking it out on this forum. I don't think any private land will magically open up without outfitters like Eric. Their success is a big key to getting more land rolled in to the Block Program. Someone just needs to make a proposal that makes sense. $200 for a guaranteed NR combo tag ain't gonna have the impact required so it's a nonstarter, at least for me. It really needs to be about 10x that amount or more with a hard cap on availability not to exceed current tag quota. BUT there are others on here who do not want any sort of guarantee, period end of story, no matter the price. I respect that opinion just as I respect Eric's.

As sportsmen and women, residents and non residents alike, we must wake up to the fact that we must fix our own shit so as to prevent the knuckleheads in Helena from trying to do it for us. The biggest, mind blowingly dumb comment I heard out of this legislative session was with regard to HB505 "we can give it a try for a year and fix it later if it doesn't work" That's not legislation that's a kindergarten science experiment. That right there explains why this state is so messed up in so many ways.

 

[Big Shooter]

I don't hate outfitters. I applaud any small business person trying to make a living for their family. It's completely legal so no issues at all. I also respect Eric Albus for sticking it out on this forum. I don't think any private land will magically open up without outfitters like Eric. Their success is a big key to getting more land rolled in to the Block Program. Someone just needs to make a proposal that makes sense. $200 for a guaranteed NR combo tag ain't gonna have the impact required so it's a nonstarter, at least for me. It really needs to be about 10x that amount or more with a hard cap on availability not to exceed current tag quota. BUT there are others on here who do not want any sort of guarantee, period end of story, no matter the price. I respect that opinion just as I respect Eric's.

As sportsmen and women, residents and non residents alike, we must wake up to the fact that we must fix our own shit so as to prevent the knuckleheads in Helena from trying to do it for us. The biggest, mind blowingly dumb comment I heard out of this legislative session was with regard to HB505 "we can give it a try for a year and fix it later if it doesn't work" That's not legislation that's a kindergarten science experiment. That right there explains why this state is so messed up in so many ways.

Well said.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Big Shooter and Eric Albus. If outfitters are actually in such need of stability, why weren’t the bills that MOGA supported and had legislators carry, presented to groups that represent other affected shareholders to find out what was possible to find consensus on?
The ask for 60% of tags in bill 143 set the tone and sent a clear message to all the rest of us that your industry didn’t care squat for other shareholders.
505 came along and furthered that message. Now this in 637. In 2023, I expect more as the preference point scam balls up and tags are not going to be guaranteed.

Serious question. Does your industry have any limits to what they will ask for and any consideration for fairness in allocation of the opportunity to hunt big game in MT?

 

[shoots-straight]

Big Shooter and Eric Albus. If outfitters are actually in such need of stability, why weren’t the bills that MOGA supported and had legislators carry, presented to groups that represent other affected shareholders to find out what was possible to find consensus on?
The ask for 60% of tags in bill 143 set the tone and sent a clear message to all the rest of us that your industry didn’t care squat for other shareholders.
505 came along and furthered that message. Now this in 637. In 2023, I expect more as the preference point scam balls up and tags are not going to be guaranteed.

Serious question. Does your industry have any limits to what they will ask for and any consideration for fairness in allocation of the opportunity to hunt big game in MT?

NO.

 

[8andcounting]

This is gonna hurt small town Montana . Sooner than later too. Rich mans game is pricing me out