Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[WIbiggame]

If I put profit first and resource 2nd, I'd be out of business.

Eric, I have respected your comments on here and your point of view and willingness to have a civilized conversation knowing full well you were not in the majority. But, come on there is absolutely no argument you or any other outfitter can make that would show you value the resource over $$ after this.

If you valued the resources and shooting mature animals just think of how good things wohldve been next year for your clients who didn't draw because less stress was put on the resource this hunting season.

I get it 100% you are in a business and we can't really hate the player but we sure as hell CAN HATE THE GAME!

MOGA played all their cards and the repercussions for the outfitters and more importantly their kids if they are close to taking over the family business will be felt long beyond this. Hope the 3000 tags was worth it.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Nevermind it’s useless.

 

[Sioux33]

If I put profit first and resource 2nd, I'd be out of business.

Pretty easy to say when your newly granted welfare tags allow "the resource" to grow exponentially.

Please do us all a favor and tell your MOGA buddies to save us a couple BM ranches when they're in the process of locking them all up this summer.

 

[sacountry]

I'm left wondering who's petitioning the governor to veto HB637. Think RMEF is getting up in Greg's business or no?

 

[BuzzH]

If I put profit first and resource 2nd, I'd be out of business.

Doubtful...

I think its more like, business as usual...socialism, subsidies and welfare seem pretty popular in Hinsdale. No reason to think you'd change your views about hunting licenses. Its part of the Culture...

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.

farm.ewg.org

 

[HighCountryCommando]

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.

farm.ewg.org

Holy Fish-n-Chips!

 

[Andrew Posewitz]

I'm left wondering who's petitioning the governor to veto HB637. Think RMEF is getting up in Greg's business or no?

Not sure but that would be surprising to me as I think they have typically stayed out of this kind of fight over the last few years. The only time I saw them weigh in this session was on the misguided attempt around the proposed government restriction on who a private landowner could and couldn’t sell to. I’m not a current member so would 100% defer to someone who is but my view from afar doesn’t have them doing this kind of thing much anymore. They may well be working behind the scenes (fingers crossed), because I know the Gov has at times listened to RMEF. For those who are members it might be good to see if you can bring a little pressure.

I know MWF is specifically requesting a veto and BHA has action alert to facilitate letters to the governor.

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/take_action#/180

 

[TN_Rifle_Junkie]

Doubtful...

I think its more like, business as usual...socialism, subsidies and welfare seem pretty popular in Hinsdale. No reason to think you'd change your views about hunting licenses. Its part of the Culture...

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.

farm.ewg.org

That's only an average of $168,000 per year. I grew up corn/milk cattle farming in the midwest during the corn "down years". We would get 3-4 times that a year to NOT grow corn. Running a farm and ranch is a very expensive business as many people are aware. Some years, you need the help just to buy seed or fill the diesel tanks to plow/sow the fields.

Don't be so quick to judge about farmer subsidies please.

Farming/ranching and outfitting are two completely different animals. I am doubtful that Eric makes enough money off outfitting to pay his "hay bill" for over winter.

As an eastern hunter, coming out west every year to hunt, I see both sides of the issue. I think that the way this bill slipped in was dirty, and I also do not like the "head of line privilege" for outfitted NR hunters. I currently hold 2 PP myself (passed on applying this year) and was fully intending on applying next year. I am just glad that I have max points going into next years draw for a deer/elk combo and the new system will not affect me this ONE time. The future is dim for Montana, with more and more people coming east to move there, I see a major political shift in the near term that I don't think anyone in MT is ready for. (Think COLORADO)

 

[sacountry]

That's only an average of $168,000 per year. I grew up corn/milk cattle farming in the midwest during the corn "down years". We would get 3-4 times that a year to NOT grow corn. Running a farm and ranch is a very expensive business as many people are aware. Some years, you need the help just to buy seed or fill the diesel tanks to plow/sow the fields.

Don't be so quick to judge about farmer subsidies please.

Farming/ranching and outfitting are two completely different animals. I am doubtful that Eric makes enough money off outfitting to pay his "hay bill" for over winter.

As an eastern hunter, coming out west every year to hunt, I see both sides of the issue. I think that the way this bill slipped in was dirty, and I also do not like the "head of line privilege" for outfitted NR hunters. I currently hold 2 PP myself (passed on applying this year) and was fully intending on applying next year. I am just glad that I have max points going into next years draw for a deer/elk combo and the new system will not affect me this ONE time. The future is dim for Montana, with more and more people coming east to move there, I see a major political shift in the near term that I don't think anyone in MT is ready for. (Think COLORADO)

I shutter to think about Montana turning as blue as Colorado, but I am experiencing the shift as California continues to move in, bringing their money and their value system. All the more reason to get the best interests of our wildlife out of the hands of legislators.

 

[JLS]

All the more reason to get the best interests of our wildlife out of the hands of legislators.

Actually, that time was about 16 years ago. Or more.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I shutter to think about Montana turning as blue as Colorado, but I am experience the shift as California continues to move in, bringing their money and their value system. All the more reason to get the best interests of our wildlife out of the hands of legislators.

As an independent, I still would prefer pro wildlife, pro public lands conservation, pro hunting Dems, even of the more radical left, than the deaf clowns who wielded the anti wildlife, anti public lands hunter, anti conservation easement, "let's put the guns on the streets and places so wide that Chicago looks like a gun-free zone", "restrict voting cuz our king was cheated out of the Whitehouse", right wing ideology driven legislators of this recent session.
Perhaps the initiative should be for a two-day session every ninety years instead of every two years for ninety days during which the Republicans advocate for bills which may take wildlife "back to the brink", push game onto commercially exploited status, and generally evolve Montana into the formerly "last best place" ... now just like every highly populated state which touts money producing pavement and development over conservation of habitat and heretofore special wild places.

 

[sacountry]

As an independent, I still would prefer pro wildlife, pro public lands conservation, pro hunting Dems, even of the more radical left, than the deaf clowns who wielded the anti wildlife, anti public lands hunter, anti conservation easement, "let's put the guns on the streets and places so wide that Chicago looks like a gun-free zone", "restrict voting cuz our king was cheated out of the Whitehouse", right wing ideology driven legislators of this recent session.
Perhaps the initiative should be for a two-day session every ninety years instead of every two years for ninety days during which the Republicans advocate for bills which may take wildlife "back to the brink", push game onto commercially exploited status, and generally evolve Montana into the formerly "last best place" ... now just like every highly populated state which touts money producing pavement and development over conservation of habitat and heretofore special wild places.

That was simultaneously funny, truthful, and sad.

 

[Straight Arrow]

That was simultaneously funny, truthful, and sad.

Thanks, as it was intended to be all those.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Habitat loss due to development is a major factor that affect wildlife populations. I am a building contractor.
I wonder if we can get the government to implement a Construction Reserve program to pay me not to build houses and destroy habitat?
Also, housing is a vital necessity for the security and prosperity of our nation. The cost of running a construction business is substantial. Federal subsidies for my business would make it much more stable for me to be in good position to produce more during times of high demand for housing such as now. That is when I am not getting paid to not produce.
“‘Merica and free markets, baby.”

 

[WIbiggame]

Also, housing is a vital necessity for the security and prosperity of our nation.

But Gerald you aren't relying on a lottery system to run your business remember?

 

[BuzzH]

That's only an average of $168,000 per year. I grew up corn/milk cattle farming in the midwest during the corn "down years". We would get 3-4 times that a year to NOT grow corn. Running a farm and ranch is a very expensive business as many people are aware. Some years, you need the help just to buy seed or fill the diesel tanks to plow/sow the fields.

Don't be so quick to judge about farmer subsidies please.

Farming/ranching and outfitting are two completely different animals. I am doubtful that Eric makes enough money off outfitting to pay his "hay bill" for over winter.

As an eastern hunter, coming out west every year to hunt, I see both sides of the issue. I think that the way this bill slipped in was dirty, and I also do not like the "head of line privilege" for outfitted NR hunters. I currently hold 2 PP myself (passed on applying this year) and was fully intending on applying next year. I am just glad that I have max points going into next years draw for a deer/elk combo and the new system will not affect me this ONE time. The future is dim for Montana, with more and more people coming east to move there, I see a major political shift in the near term that I don't think anyone in MT is ready for. (Think COLORADO)

Well, if you don't we me to be quick to judge, then maybe the "conservative" R side of the aisle should do the same. Including the now welfare outfitters who just got their government cheese via legislation that a majority of Montana voters don't approve of. Oh, and for clarification passed on party line vote and against the wishes of those that commented.

Its funny that we have to handle subsidized farmers and ranchers with kid gloves, you know, because they're entitled to it. Same with the now subsidized outfitters too. But those same people are VERY quick to judge the single mom at the checkout line of a grocery story paying for groceries with a SNAP card.

I guess welfare and subsidies, as well as the beneficiaries, are treated different depending on if you wear a pair of shit-kickers and a cowboy hat or clothing from a thrift store...and the name on the front of the check/card.

 

[sacountry]

But Gerald you aren't relying on a lottery system to run your business remember?

It's a good, funny point. One thought I'd rather see.....treat outfitter licenses with guaranteed tags like liquor licenses. Finite number. Can be bought and sold. Easier to plan your business. Keeps the riff raff out.

 

[TheTone]

I’d be thrilled to be making $168,000 a year plus having a bunch of land I get to hang out on and manage year round. Instead I work my butt off 40-80 hrs a week to make less than half of that and live on a postage stamp sized lot

 

[Big Shooter]

It's a good, funny point. One thought I'd rather see.....treat outfitter licenses with guaranteed tags like liquor licenses. Finite number. Can be bought and sold. Easier to plan your business. Keeps the riff raff out.

We would like that as well.......but can’t.

 

[BuzzH]

We would like that as well.......but can’t.

What, starting to figure out you aren't entitled?

Run a legitimate and good business you should do fine without the Government doing it for you.