Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[Ridgerider]

If you wondered what kind of new bills would be pushed in the current Montana legislature, here is a sample. Reinstating the outfitter license that was done away with by citizens ballot initiative is back.

Full text of the bill is at this link - https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2021/billpdf/SB0143.pdf

It is bad for residents and bad for self-guided non-residents.

Hearing the Senate Fish & Game Committee on February 2nd.

Here are the members of the Senate Fish & Game Committee:

Hinebauch, Steve (R) ‑ Chair
Brown, Bob (R) ‑ Vice Chair
Jacobson,Tom (D) ‑ Vice Chair
Blasdel, Mark (R)
Cohenour, Jill (D)
Ellsworth, Jason (R)
Flowers, Pat (D)
Hertz, Greg (R)
Howard, David (R)
Keenan, Bob (R)
McClafferty, Edie (D)

To find the email or phone number for your Senator, here is the link - https://leg.mt.gov/legislator-information/

I would strongly recommend you weigh in on this one.

Is there a Take Action email that is set up anywhere on RMEF or BHA?

 

[Sytes]

Off topic note: I wouldn't be opposed to a traditional muzzleloader season if it became a single selection between rifle, archery, and muzzleloader... and seasons for each ran meh, two weeks(?). Bah, copper balls anyone? Haha! Wow! Multi off topic threads in one paragraph


Back to MOGA's request for government sanctioned NR Outfitter clients.

 

[Big Fin]

Wish I was not traveling tomorrow. I'd love to be there in person.

Suffice to say, the Committee is squirming right now. If they think the last few days have been hectic just get this on the Governor's desk. Then things will get serious.

 

[WIbiggame]

It will be streamed here: http://sg001-harmony.sliq.net/00309/Harmony/en/View/UpcomingEvents

Which meeting is it? I would like to listen to it? Also thanks for sharing the link.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Which meeting is it? I would like to listen to it? Also thanks for sharing the link.

You will want the Senate Fish & Game hearing on 2/2/2021.

This link should take you to the page where the video will be hosted: http://sg001-harmony.sliq.net/00309/Harmony/en/PowerBrowser/PowerBrowserV2/20210201/-1/41731

45 minutes left if you want to sign up to testify for or against this bill. The new rules of the session say that remote participators must sign up 24 hours before a hearing.

 

[WIbiggame]

You will want the Senate Fish & Game hearing on 2/2/2021.

This link should take you to the page where the video will be hosted: http://sg001-harmony.sliq.net/00309/Harmony/en/PowerBrowser/PowerBrowserV2/20210201/-1/41731

45 minutes left if you want to sign up to testify for or against this bill. The new rules of the session say that remote participators must sign up 24 hours before a hearing.

Thanks Ben

 

[Ben Lamb]

In case you really wanted to hear an outfitter say it's about undermining the will of Montana Voters who passed I-161 & that this is about giving outfitters a guarantee.

I'd put this video under "things you really shouldn't put online."

 

[Sytes]

"The only thing that having non sponsored tags is bad for is it's bad for the outfitter"
16:35

Is that what they call a Freudian slip?

 

[MT_Edge]

If you wondered what kind of new bills would be pushed in the current Montana legislature, here is a sample. Reinstating the outfitter license that was done away with by citizens ballot initiative is back.

Full text of the bill is at this link - https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2021/billpdf/SB0143.pdf

It is bad for residents and bad for self-guided non-residents.

Hearing the Senate Fish & Game Committee on February 2nd.

Here are the members of the Senate Fish & Game Committee:

Hinebauch, Steve (R) ‑ Chair
Brown, Bob (R) ‑ Vice Chair
Jacobson,Tom (D) ‑ Vice Chair
Blasdel, Mark (R)
Cohenour, Jill (D)
Ellsworth, Jason (R)
Flowers, Pat (D)
Hertz, Greg (R)
Howard, David (R)
Keenan, Bob (R)
McClafferty, Edie (D)

To find the email or phone number for your Senator, here is the link - https://leg.mt.gov/legislator-information/

I would strongly recommend you weigh in on this one.

If you wondered what kind of new bills would be pushed in the current Montana legislature, here is a sample. Reinstating the outfitter license that was done away with by citizens ballot initiative is back.

Full text of the bill is at this link - https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2021/billpdf/SB0143.pdf

It is bad for residents and bad for self-guided non-residents.

Hearing the Senate Fish & Game Committee on February 2nd.

Here are the members of the Senate Fish & Game Committee:

Hinebauch, Steve (R) ‑ Chair
Brown, Bob (R) ‑ Vice Chair
Jacobson,Tom (D) ‑ Vice Chair
Blasdel, Mark (R)
Cohenour, Jill (D)
Ellsworth, Jason (R)
Flowers, Pat (D)
Hertz, Greg (R)
Howard, David (R)
Keenan, Bob (R)
McClafferty, Edie (D)

To find the email or phone number for your Senator, here is the link - https://leg.mt.gov/legislator-information/

I would strongly recommend you weigh in on this one.

Outfitted clients already make up 45-55% of non res B-10/B-11 annually though with a declining trend right?

 

[Pucky Freak]

The video brings up some valid points. My thought is there are better solutions to the issues though.

For instance, make MD totally limited like CO. Reserve general elk to a few units that have either very difficult access, or a management goal of keeping elk populations very low. Then make the rest of the state totally limited.

This would mean fewer tags for R and NR, and at first a lot of people would think it’s a bad deal, but after 3 years I think nearly everyone would see that the hunt quality had improved and crowding greatly reduced.

 

[TheTone]

No. It’s Montana.
Elk eat valuable hay and ruin fences and deer could die from CWD if hunters don’t kill them. They want less elk, not more.
Check out the new general muzzleloader season that’s being proposed.

Then I’ll assume the vast majority of outfitted clients will be hunting does and cows since killing bulls and bucks really doesn’t do much to drive populations.

 

[turbo2thousand]

In case you really wanted to hear an outfitter say it's about undermining the will of Montana Voters who passed I-161 & that this is about giving outfitters a guarantee.

I'd put this video under "things you really shouldn't put online."

I watched the video and there were a lot of claims that made no sense. The big one is he quoted some study that said outfitted hunters spent $3500 to come hunting in Montana and DIY hunters only spent $600, but the $3500 didn't even include the outfitters fee. Where do outfitted hunters spend the extra $2900? A NR Elk/Deer tag cost $526. So DIY hunters only spend $74 on fuel/food/lodging ect.

I keep seeing this bill as the government giving our rights to private business and letting that business sell the right back to the people. Is there anywhere else this takes place?

 

[Ben Lamb]

I watched the video and there were a lot of claims that made no sense. The big one is he quoted some study that said outfitted hunters spent $3500 to come hunting in Montana and DIY hunters only spent $600, but the $3500 didn't even include the outfitters fee. Where do outfitted hunters spend the extra $2900? A NR Elk/Deer tag cost $526. So DIY hunters only spend $74 on fuel/food/lodging ect.

I keep seeing this bill as the government giving our rights to private business and letting that business sell the right back to the people. Is there anywhere else this takes place?

Energy industry leases the resource for a pittance and then sells it back to the people at an inflated price. That's about it.

Their math really doesn't add up at all. I mean, I've never once seen a NR in a MT Bar or Restaurant. They all eat pimento load sandwiches & string cheese they brought from Wisconsin and every man-jack of them brings at least three racks of Natty Light to get through the week. Right?

 

[turbo2thousand]

This is truly amazing. Sounds like most of you want to run our public lands into the ground and you don’t even pay taxes here. Double maskers if you will. “I’m a public landowner” lol maybe in your state. Elk are on private land now more then ever, for a reason. It’s not even comparable to when there were guaranteed outfitter tags over a decade ago. Huh I wonder why? Human pressure with the help of predators that had the help of humans. Some people have gained monetarily as well as built notoriety by publicizing our public lands as well. Seems slimy to me. Our public lands have become inundated with people. Non residents, old residents, new residents but no new guides? Really the same allotments and usage for guides on BLM, state and forest going back decades. It’s people. Masses of people being sold the public land dream. Why are outfitters that take clients on private hunt miles from public painted with this broad brush as villains. Those clients that have one week and save all year to hunt instead of going on a cruise are now rich elites? When is the last time any of you talked to a outfitters or guides from a neutral position??? How about the guide who lost 10-15% of client draw the past few years pre COVID due to an excess of the diy non residents that show up with no plan? Thaycall an outfitter while there here poking for information because they seen more hunters and kennetrek tacks than elk or elk tracks. Or the outfitter who lost multiple groups last year to COVID. What about him? Meanwhile his yearly loyal clients spend a pile of money in those communities. Most of which being processing and taxidermy. Two things most nr diy hunters do not invest in Montana by and large. Never Mind guide employment and those clients spending money in town during the week at motels, cafes and sporting stores. That money does stay in those areas. I think loyalty to our wildlife and residents should take precedence over diy non residents. It’s a privledge to hunt here as a non resident. Give the guide industry some better footing, allow our clogged public ground some room to breath for our tax paying locals, wildlife and those lucky 40% diy non residents. The numbers also don’t indicate that nr diy are going to be losing out on the draw like some are propagating. How many already go to outfitters? Now your guaranteeing you have a 40% chance of coming here as a nr diy hunter. Every other year most likely. That’s not good enough? There are other states you can hunt. You don’t just have to hammer Montana. If you want to hunt here every year, then move here and participate in our year round economy, instead of taking a natural resource from us for a fraction of the cost and head back home. Maybe if this passed those elk will jump back over the fence on public and I won’t run into a guy from the Midwest on the county rd disgruntled because he had no idea there would be that many people at a trailhead in Montana. “Seems like Colorado up here” he says. There is something for all of us in this bill. I hope it passes

There are 10 Resident tags for every NR tag so you might be pointing the finger in the wrong place on who is on public land. I looked at the Hunter Effort stats on the FWP page and the number of hunter days was 4-10 times higher for resident hunters.

 

[Hunting Wife]

In case you really wanted to hear an outfitter say it's about undermining the will of Montana Voters who passed I-161 & that this is about giving outfitters a guarantee.

I'd put this video under "things you really shouldn't put online."

What a joke. Where to even begin. Aside from the gem @Sytes quoted...

I have never heard anyone speak so disdainfully of people who are self-sufficient and able to take care of their own needs. What in the actual F&@$? So self-reliant, rugged individualism should be punished now?

Non residents who are free to make multiple trips out to scout and hunt, who often bring their families to enjoy other activities in addition to hunting, and who socialize with friends and family who live here aren’t spending any money here, but high rollers who fly in for a week of all inclusive accommodations are making it rain at local businesses? Not buying it.

Tags should be prioritized to whoever is willing to spend the most money? Isn’t that exactly what Tenet 7 of the North American model of Wildlife Conservation seeks to prevent?

I would be perfectly fine if every non-resident who drew a tag hired an outfitter because they wanted to and saw the value in the services provided. I see no reason that our government should have to create that value for their industry by making services a requirement to get a tag. I also think anything that stacks the access to wildlife deck in favor of certain segments of the population to the detriment of others is an erosion of the North American model and one more step towards privatization of the resource.

There may be room for improvement with regards to wildlife and Hunter management in MT, but this bill does nothing with regards to those.

 

[tjones]

I have never heard anyone speak so disdainfully of people who are self-sufficient and able to take care of their own needs. What in the actual F&@$?

Ya gotta like her!

 

[Marshian]

Sent out some emails and made some phone calls. When will we know the final fate of the bill?

 

[FlatlanderAZ]

Has anyone considered the impact to future generations of hunters? If this were to pass my sons would likely only hunt MT one time in their youth. It is unlikely they would develop the kind of affinity for the state that I have grown up with.

So when Montana needs help with a conservation initiative, like support to delist an apex predator. Or contributions for habitat preservation, how likely are they to care enough to get involved?

 

[Gerald Martin]

There are too many nonresident tourists in Montana during the summer.
We need to pass legislation limiting the number of tourists along with the requirement that 60% of those tourists book overnight stays at lodging owned by the American Prairie Reserve. You know, to stabilize their ability to stay profitable and bring free ranging bison back on the landscape. Heritage baby! #Bisonwereherebeforebeef.

Or, does that special interest fall in the “undeserving” category?

 

[The Hedgehog]

Those pesky nonresident do it yourselfer hunters who come and just take take take and don’t pay pay pay...

I thought dunce caps were white?