Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[NDGuy]

Anyone hates to watch their chances lower for something they love so much. But at the end of the day it's up to the state and those residents. There will always be someone to buy that tag and someone who jumps ship when things change. I'm just a grumpy SOB lately because I seem to be walking the plank looking out over the ocean. I have my line in the sand and two states have met it and a third is pushing the line I guess. I've got more hunting in my backyard than I can do in a lifetime. So I'm happy that I've gotten to experience what I have the last 20 years.
On another note I had no idea ND had so many moose. No wonder my buddy is always sending pics from the pipeline out there.

They are growing nicely here. Except it's not very epic dumping a 50" bull out of a standing cornfield

 

[Ben Lamb]

They are growing nicely here. Except it's not very epic dumping a 50" bull out of a standing cornfield

That's my favorite kind of Moose - one you can get a winch on.

 

[NDGuy]

North Dakota issues more moose licenses than Wyoming and Montana and still don't give NR's a single tag.

I could see within a few years we open that up in the NW side of the state. Their populations are growing solid here.

Although I think as long as Elk/Moose are OIL tags here we won't be letting NRs apply.

 

[NDGuy]

That's my favorite kind of Moose - one you can get a winch on.

Out the back of a Denny's parking lot in Williston

 

[Ben Lamb]

Out the back of a Denny's parking lot in Williston

$50 extra if it's already cut up.

 

[Sytes]

Out the back of a Denny's parking lot in Williston

A "Grand Slam" from the breakfast blind? Do outfitters pay homage to the Denny's waiter/tress?

 

[BuzzH]

It's a fine line. I agree with you on NR hunters and the need to pay a larger amount, but you also have to take market considerations into account, which is why tying licenses to the CPI was a push for a few years.

But a couple of things that have been clanging around in the cranium: The outpouring of support we've seen in relation to a lot of bad bills comes from the same NR's that we charge high rates. In fact, on 143, it was the NR DIY sportsman that stood up quickly & went to bat for those in-state fighting this. That's worth note, and worth understanding the power that we have together, as residents & NR's, especially as DIY hunters.

I totally agree that the states have the right to set that cost of admission and use the funding as needed, which is why the amendment was a far better approach than the original bill. But if we get to the point where the product offered is not inline with expectations for quality and price, then the state will see a decline in some demographics hunting.

I don't think the $300 fee gets there with the B10, as it's still competitively priced with other states once you factor in the deer, elk, fishing, upland, etc that comes with the B10, but adding $300 the B11 probably will cut the DIY hard, and make them look elsewhere.

So, in our thought process, we should be reconciling the support resident hunters get from NR's who fight for us, as well as what the market will bear in those NR Tags. I'd rather have the army we have, and not bleed off support for DIY hunters & public land advocates.

I agree, and personally if I had to pay full price for NR Montana license's I wouldn't bother.

I would just go play guide for my family and save the money for a state that manages wildlife better. Matter of fact, I've done it with elk, haven't bought the license for an additional $200 OTC elk tag, since 2015, because I don't feel its worth it. What I haven't done is throw my sucker in the dirt and threaten MT residents that they better give me a cheaper tag so I can elk hunt there on my perceived ROI.

Also doesn't mean that I'm not going to be a thorn in the side of Montana politicians or quit writing letters in support of public lands, wildlife there, etc. just because of what they charge. I also still fight the good fight for sportsmen there even though I CHOOSE not to participate in hunting elk there.

That's a bit different than what a bunch of guys here threaten..."we'll quit supporting public lands, we'll quit contacting our congressmen, we'll quit being supportive of everything" because you won't make it cheaper and we want our way.

Well, don't expect an invite from me under the canopy of the "big tent"...those types can stand out in the rain for all I care.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I agree, and personally if I had to pay full price for NR Montana license's I wouldn't bother.

I would just go play guide for my family and save the money for a state that manages wildlife better. Matter of fact, I've done it with elk, haven't bought the license for an additional $200 OTC elk tag, since 2015, because I don't feel its worth it. What I haven't done is throw my sucker in the dirt and threaten MT residents that they better give me a cheaper tag so I can elk hunt there on my perceived ROI.

Also doesn't mean that I'm not going to be a thorn in the side of Montana politicians or quit writing letters in support of public lands, wildlife there, etc. just because of what they charge. I also still fight the good fight for sportsmen there even though I CHOOSE not to participate in hunting elk there.

That's a bit different than what a bunch of guys here threaten..."we'll quit supporting public lands, we'll quit contacting our congressmen, we'll quit being supportive of everything" because you won't make it cheaper and we want our way.

Well, don't expect an invite from me under the canopy of the "big tent"...those types can stand out in the rain for all I care.

I couldn't imagine what kind of a chitty world it would be without buzz being a thorn in someone's side.

 

[BuzzH]

I couldn't imagine what kind of a chitty world it would be without buzz being a thorn in someone's side.

Hey, I often consult with the best in the business at being thorny...but I wont name names.

 

[brocksw]

So, now that the bill has been amended where we at?


I didn't think I could support it at initial glance, but after studying for a day....what the heck I can live with it.

What do you feel you've really gained? I'm no expert in the WY draw odds, but from what I do know the Wy special draw can be unpredicatable. Some years you're better off getting into the more expensive draw, some years you're not. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

I'm obviously speculating here but it almost seems like you're saying "Well, I don't get the guaranteed tags I wanted, nor the stability I wanted, but hey...at least its more expensive." Which, from one hunter to another, is a bit frustrating. In my opinion, there are a few terrible things that could happen to hunting that would ruin hunting as we know it. Making it too expensive is one of those things....

 

[Deleted member 18333]

What do you feel you've really gained? I'm no expert in the WY draw odds, but from what I do know the Wy special draw can be unpredicatable. Some years you're better off getting into the more expensive draw, some years you're not. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

You are more wrong than right. This MT tag would be more comparable to a Wy Gen elk tag or a Region Deer tag. The special draw for these is almost always better odds than the regular draw. Some of the LQ tags will have better odds under the regular draw over the special but more often than not the special is better odds.

 

[brocksw]

You are more wrong than right. This MT tag would be more comparable to a Wy Gen elk tag or a Region Deer tag. The special draw for these is almost always better odds than the regular draw. Some of the LQ tags will have better odds under the regular draw over the special but more often than not the special is better odds.

Thank you for the information.

 

[Eric Albus]

Were I king I would make an amendment as to where the extra $300 goes. I would've liked to have seen it go to a "super block management program". SBM would have to meet a criteria of providing a better experience than a 640 acre stubble field with 2 gut piles, 4 field mice and an owl on it for wildlife. The criteria would have to be set by panel of landowners/sportsmen/FWP. But I ain't king.

I think the BM program needs a major overhaul. In Reg. 7 FWP personnel are telling the DIY guys to not even bother going and hunting BM's as there is nothing left on them. How's that for sad, honest, but sad.

Personally I would like to sit down with the opposition and see if there is not a workable solution for both parties. A way to provide stability to the outfitters and a quality access program for the DIY crowd.

 

[Hunt West]

Were I king I would make an amendment as to where the extra $300 goes. I would've liked to have seen it go to a "super block management program". SBM would have to meet a criteria of providing a better experience than a 640 acre stubble field with 2 gut piles, 4 field mice and an owl on it for wildlife. The criteria would have to be set by panel of landowners/sportsmen/FWP. But I ain't king.

I think the BM program needs a major overhaul. In Reg. 7 FWP personnel are telling the DIY guys to not even bother going and hunting BM's as there is nothing left on them. How's that for sad, honest, but sad.

Personally I would like to sit down with the opposition and see if there is not a workable solution for both parties. A way to provide stability to the outfitters and a quality access program for the DIY crowd.

I can agree with most of what you said but I probably would have sat down with both sides as you say prior to introduction and writing of 143....

 

[AlaskaHunter]

Elections have consequences. MOGA was empowered by the recent election, and as such, is pursuing a heavy-handed approach to the session. This is not unexpected.

This is the same administration & Legislature that's about to siphon off around $10 million per year for access & wildlife mgt because they don't like the language in the weed initiative.

Who is MOGA and how were they empowered by the recent election? Thanks.

 

[Schaaf]

Were I king I would make an amendment as to where the extra $300 goes. I would've liked to have seen it go to a "super block management program". SBM would have to meet a criteria of providing a better experience than a 640 acre stubble field with 2 gut piles, 4 field mice and an owl on it for wildlife. The criteria would have to be set by panel of landowners/sportsmen/FWP. But I ain't king.

I think the BM program needs a major overhaul. In Reg. 7 FWP personnel are telling the DIY guys to not even bother going and hunting BM's as there is nothing left on them. How's that for sad, honest, but sad.

Personally I would like to sit down with the opposition and see if there is not a workable solution for both parties. A way to provide stability to the outfitters and a quality access program for the DIY crowd.

A lot of truth to that. Outside of Bird Hunting, the only BMA’s I’ve signed into in the last 5 years were walk in only.

 

[Carnage2011]

A lot of truth to that. Outside of Bird Hunting, the only BMA’s I’ve signed into in the last 5 years were walk in only.

The BMA program needs a revamp for sure. There needs to be some sort of criteria for lands to be enrolled. Just down the road from my house a landowner has a piece enrolled that holds zero animals...zero. I feel bad when I see someone sign in and waste their time on it. Not to mention it is a waste of money to enroll that land. The landowner owns some quality hunting land, but of course none of it is in block management.
Not to derail the thread, but changes need to be made.

 

[SAJ-99]

Who is MOGA and how were they empowered by the recent election? Thanks.

Outfitters and guides Assoc. Government is all Repub across the board. The Dem governor termed out. Absolutely no check on power. The list of bad bills, both hunting and other, being pushed through is astounding.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

Outfitters and guides Assoc. Government is all Repub across the board. The Dem governor termed out. Absolutely no check on power. The list of bad bills, both hunting and other, being pushed through is astounding.

The Board of Game is Alaska has 7 members and 6 of the 7 have ties to the guide industry or subsistence hunting.

 

[Badger_55]

My wildlife is worth more than to just give it away so the most common of "common man" NR hunters can participate. Or, more to the point, so that the NR's already affording it can do it cheaper so they can buy more ATV's, more rifles, and sitka gear...

Sitting on a pretty high horse here. I'd take a "common man" over a suit and tie any day.