Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

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Having a few days to think about this and read the comments I am left with a couple things.

1) How is this bill going to gain the state millions?? I have seen every person that is for thos bill say NOTHING will change for NR DIY guys they will still draw at the same rate and this is only guaranteed tags for clients the outfitters already have. So therefore the amount coming in won't change.

2) These outfitters aren't dumb. I have looked back at older posts when things like this had come up. Most notably in 2013, when the outfitters were looking for 1500 more wilderness tags. These guys (outfitters) I think can see the writing on the wall that they industry is a dying one so they are looking to the govt for help. Everyone I have seen trying to defend this bill say they would only be using 30-50% of the NR tags so why ask for 60% unless you are trying to protect your dying business. The response from the DIY community and resident MT community I think speaks volumes to this being true.

3) The very vast majority of people I have seen against this bill have no ill will against outfitters at all. We all would just like to be on a level playing field when it comes to drawing tags and want to be have a chance to hunt how we want.

4) Outfitters saying that this bill won't hurt resident hunters bc they (outfitters) won't be leasing up more private land thus further limiting resident opportunities is BS or their (outfitters) figures on how much an outfitter client spends while in MT. Let me explain my thought process and correct it if I am wrong. If someone is spending the $3500 mentioned in the video on this thread they aren't hunting in the backcountry. They are hunting private ground close to a town, thus allowing them to have breakfast, lunch, dinner, and drinks in a town. So to support that clientele more private land would be needed.

I have nothing against outfitters at all even after watching Coltor bad mouth NR's. He is passionate about his job and career and that I can respect although I wouldve gone about differently and with a little more tact. A NR is a NR whether they hunt with an outfitter or not so they all should have the same odds of drawing a tag.
 
Having a few days to think about this and read the comments I am left with a couple things.

2) These outfitters aren't dumb. I have looked back at older posts when things like this had come up. Most notably in 2013, when the outfitters were looking for 1500 more wilderness tags. These guys (outfitters) I think can see the writing on the wall that they industry is a dying one so they are looking to the govt for help. Everyone I have seen trying to defend this bill say they would only be using 30-50% of the NR tags so why ask for 60% unless you are trying to protect your dying business. The response from the DIY community and resident MT community I think speaks volumes to this being true.
I am thinking that the 60% is so that outfitters have tags available when absentee owners come looking for tags when they can not draw.
 
It makes sense to me that if the government is going to fix the amount of demand for outfitters at 60% then it stands to reason they should also fix the supply. It looks like someone needs to introduce a bill that limits the number of guide licenses available in the state. Each year the members of MOGA can apply for the opportunity to outfit hunts. This would prevent crowding on private lands and over-competition with residents. Because the number of NR hunters isn’t changing the number of guided hunts isn’t changing so it really won’t be hurting anyone’s business.
 
This thread sure has brought out some interesting new members. I wonder how long they will stay.
Have got to respect Eric. I may not agree with every position he has taken but at least he is not a one hit wonder.
100%. Puts his name on everything he posts and doesn’t hide behind a username to toss around insults like most of us. I have lot more respect for him after a few days of this thread going.
 


SB143 will only benefit resident hunters by reducing NR competition on public land and Block Management, but you failed to point that out.


I keep hearing this. Are people really supposed to believe that MOGA gets behind things with the interest and benefit of the unguided, resident hunter in mind? They are an outfitting organization. Everything they lobby for is to benefit outfitters and guided, non resident clients. That's okay. That's who they are. If they were lobbying for resident, DIY hunters, the people in charge would get fired for going against the mission of the organization.

For people to believe this is to benefit residents is naïve at best. I think most people that say it are more likely just lying.
 
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Big Fin

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JoinedDec 27, 2000Messages14,881LocationBozeman, MT
Wish I was not traveling tomorrow. I'd love to be there in person.

"Suffice to say, the Committee is squirming right now. If they think the last few days have been hectic just get this on the Governor's desk. Then things will get serious.

My name is Randy Newberg and I approved this post. What is written is my opinion, and my opinion only."

It's pretty amazing after you filled everyone full of lies, misinformation and discontent about SB143 and got many to do your dirty work, you're to much of a chicken to even show up at the Capital to answer questions from the Committee today.

All I can say is that you must really HATE the outfitting industry to put out the propaganda you posted about SB143. SB143 will only benefit resident hunters by reducing NR competition on public land and Block Management, but you failed to point that out. You suggested that SB143 would greatly harm the NR DIY hunter by taking away their chance to draw a license, but in actuality their draw success will remain the same as it was, because you failed to factor in the fact that outfitter's clients are included in the draw stats and by removing them from the general draw only keeps the draw for the non-outfitted hunter the same chance as it is now. And the last but most important thing you misrepresented to everyone was the fact that SB143 will generate millions of dollars for conservation and to improve access for Montana hunters.
I’m usually not a fan of trolls, but these last 2 that have jumped into this thread have done more to help our cause than they will even imagine! Kinda reminds me of...

1612276777618.jpeg
 
[IMG alt="Big Fin"]https://www.hunttalk.com/data/avatars/m/12/12015.jpg?1571925455[/IMG]

Big Fin

Administrator​


Staff member
JoinedDec 27, 2000Messages14,881LocationBozeman, MT
Wish I was not traveling tomorrow. I'd love to be there in person.

"Suffice to say, the Committee is squirming right now. If they think the last few days have been hectic just get this on the Governor's desk. Then things will get serious.

My name is Randy Newberg and I approved this post. What is written is my opinion, and my opinion only."

It's pretty amazing after you filled everyone full of lies, misinformation and discontent about SB143 and got many to do your dirty work, you're to much of a chicken to even show up at the Capital to answer questions from the Committee today.

All I can say is that you must really HATE the outfitting industry to put out the propaganda you posted about SB143. SB143 will only benefit resident hunters by reducing NR competition on public land and Block Management, but you failed to point that out. You suggested that SB143 would greatly harm the NR DIY hunter by taking away their chance to draw a license, but in actuality their draw success will remain the same as it was, because you failed to factor in the fact that outfitter's clients are included in the draw stats and by removing them from the general draw only keeps the draw for the non-outfitted hunter the same chance as it is now. And the last but most important thing you misrepresented to everyone was the fact that SB143 will generate millions of dollars for conservation and to improve access for Montana hunters.
I usually don’t respond to trolls, but a couple quick comments are necessary.

1-Randy has never had a problem voicing his opinion. I’d hardly say prior obligations make him a “chicken.”

2-How can you claim that it will reduce the number of non residents on public/block management but the draw odds wont change for them? I’m guessing math/stats/common sense isn’t a strong point of yours.

3- You act like this is going to improve public access but you put too many limiting factors on it. The money can only be used during certain times to acquire new access. The access can’t be through someone to adjacent public lands unless that person has the lease on them.

Stop acting like you guys are doing residents a favor. This is nothing more than your attempt to line your pockets.
 
@Honest ... 3 posts since joint in 2015? Damn son you’re just a wealth of knowledge. Think I’ll be taking a hard pass on ya here, esp. when questioning Fin’s cred on this site!
 
For the life of me, I just can't figure out how people that pretend to pride themselves so much on their strong, rural work ethic and rugged individualistic way of life are so eager to take handouts from the government. And they're not just willing to do it quietly out of embarrassment and hope nobody notices it. They're loudly advocating for it, where everybody can see it.
If you can't make a living in our country, you are supposed to get smarter or work harder or do something else, not stand around with your hand out.
 
[IMG alt="Big Fin"]https://www.hunttalk.com/data/avatars/m/12/12015.jpg?1571925455[/IMG]

Big Fin

Administrator​


Staff member
JoinedDec 27, 2000Messages14,881LocationBozeman, MT
Wish I was not traveling tomorrow. I'd love to be there in person.

"Suffice to say, the Committee is squirming right now. If they think the last few days have been hectic just get this on the Governor's desk. Then things will get serious.

My name is Randy Newberg and I approved this post. What is written is my opinion, and my opinion only."

It's pretty amazing after you filled everyone full of lies, misinformation and discontent about SB143 and got many to do your dirty work, you're to much of a chicken to even show up at the Capital to answer questions from the Committee today.

All I can say is that you must really HATE the outfitting industry to put out the propaganda you posted about SB143. SB143 will only benefit resident hunters by reducing NR competition on public land and Block Management, but you failed to point that out. You suggested that SB143 would greatly harm the NR DIY hunter by taking away their chance to draw a license, but in actuality their draw success will remain the same as it was, because you failed to factor in the fact that outfitter's clients are included in the draw stats and by removing them from the general draw only keeps the draw for the non-outfitted hunter the same chance as it is now. And the last but most important thing you misrepresented to everyone was the fact that SB143 will generate millions of dollars for conservation and to improve access for Montana hunters.
Welcome to Hunt Talk.

I am not anti-outfitting. I refer dozens of hunts to outfitters each year. I encourage a lot of new elk hunters to use an outfitter if they feel more comfortable, for whatever the variety of reasons may be. I've been on four guided hunts in my life and I had a great time on all of them. I'm happy to see someone hunting, guided or non-guided.

I am not sure why folks like you find promotion of self-guided such a sin. You have very vocal trade agency that promotes guided hunting. Eric has chimed in on this forum for years and he seems to like the idea of hunting and hunters, guided or self-guided. Yet, there is surely a group among the outfitting community that feels threatened by self-guided hunters. That fear or dislike of non-guided hunting is a big part of what we have read in these threads and in the what the dude in the posted video was stating.

I'm a CPA, our types are kind of the "Charlies Daniels of the spreadsheet." I'm pretty damn comfortable with my understanding of how the math would work on this. I'd love to see your numbers and how you got them. Post em up.

Yeah, kind of chickenshit of me to be out of town with my wife to visit her family, something we've had on the books long before this bill popped up. Since you might be out of the loop about the last time this forum saw "Full on chickenshit," here is a refresher course at this link - https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/moga-rmef-and-randy-newberg.253976/

Looking forward to more of your commentary. Honestly, I do.
 
Says room 442 and agenda matches up.



Yep.

If you plan on attending either the zoom call or the meeting in person, please arrive early so you can sign in & be recognized if you wish to testify. Reminder - you had to sign up yesterday if you wished to testify remotely.

Also, be polite & professional. No personal attacks or digs. Wear a nice shirt & run a comb through your hair. You are representing Hunters, so be respectful & respectable. Keep your testimony short & to the point, with a solid ask at the end to please table the bill.
 
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