Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[Schaaf]

this one?

View attachment 183196

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[shoots-straight]

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Beef, it's what's for dinner.

 

[TheJason]

???

The hog leg is for Ephraim. Never know where that sumbitch’ll be hidin’.

 

[BWALKER77]

Than who? I wouldn’t argue that rich NRs spend more than middle-income DIY NRs. But Residents? Residents pay taxes, so that doesn’t stand up. Also, about 100pages ago I point out the flaws in the economic argue meant from the study MOGA cited. While I admit the difference, it isn’t clear how much that difference is. Regardless, I don’t think residents want to be raising elk for NRs, which is essentially what this does, and hence the 120 pages of vitriol.

I was speaking of NR guided vs. DIY and you know that.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I was speaking of NR guided vs. DIY and you know that.

'Depends on what businesses you consider in receiving the economic benefits. Certainly outfitters receive some large payments for their services (typically living accommodations, food, transportation, etc.) and their access. However, it could be argued that the small town motels, bars, restaurants, pizza shops, grocery stores and other retail outlets receive much more income from the DIY NRs than from outfitted NRs, many of whom don't even frequent the small towns near where they hunt.

I would like to see a study that describes that economic dynamic and provides analysis and conclusion regarding outfitted NRs vs DIY NRs with regard to what they spend in Montana and what businesses benefit.

 

[SAJ-99]

I was speaking of NR guided vs. DIY and you know that.

Sure I did, but they didn’t give 3000 tags to residents who didn’t draw. I also know you can’t prove that, minus what they pay the guide, those NRs contribute more. You are basically saying they should get preference because they pay MOGA members? We end up raising elk for the rich. The King’s elk. It’s residents who get blamed for not fixing the damage caused by elk. I just don’t see how the economic argument is made that they should get preference over others. It is complicated. The reality is MOGA has friends in high places and they went with a scorched earth policy this session.

 

[tjones]

???

4H?

 

[Eric Albus]

Question to this answer you wrote, which I don't think you really mean or have thought implications through.

How many votes would mean "j-cksh-t" to you?

Or in its algebraic form:

130 * MOGA's membership = "not j-cksh-t"

x * MOGA's membership = "j-cksh-t"

Solve for x.

MOGA membership doesn’t amount to jack. For a fact.

 

[BWALKER77]

Unless they are archery hunters right?

'Depends on what businesses you consider in receiving the economic benefits. Certainly outfitters receive some large payments for their services (typically living accommodations, food, transportation, etc.) and their access. However, it could be argued that the small town motels, bars, restaurants, pizza shops, grocery stores and other retail outlets receive much more income from the DIY NRs than from outfitted NRs, many of whom don't even frequent the small towns near where they hunt.

I would like to see a study that describes that economic dynamic and provides analysis and conclusion regarding outfitted NRs vs DIY NRs with regard to what they spend in Montana and what businesses benefit.

I find that argument to be a bunch of BS. When I hunt DIY NR the only thing I buy is gasoline.

 

[BWALKER77]

Sure I did, but they didn’t give 3000 tags to residents who didn’t draw. I also know you can’t prove that, minus what they pay the guide, those NRs contribute more. You are basically saying they should get preference because they pay MOGA members? We end up raising elk for the rich. The King’s elk. It’s residents who get blamed for not fixing the damage caused by elk. I just don’t see how the economic argument is made that they should get preference over others. It is complicated. The reality is MOGA has friends in high places and they went with a scorched earth policy this session.

When talking economics you can't discount the cost of the hunt. That's ridiculous.

 

[Buffs35]

...

I find that argument to be a bunch of BS. When I hunt DIY NR the only thing I buy is gasoline.

I buy gas, groceries, eat in restaurants, drink in bars, buy souvenirs for the kids, and sometimes stay in hotels.

 

[Eric Albus]

'Depends on what businesses you consider in receiving the economic benefits. Certainly outfitters receive some large payments for their services (typically living accommodations, food, transportation, etc.) and their access. However, it could be argued that the small town motels, bars, restaurants, pizza shops, grocery stores and other retail outlets receive much more income from the DIY NRs than from outfitted NRs, many of whom don't even frequent the small towns near where they hunt.

I would like to see a study that describes that economic dynamic and provides analysis and conclusion regarding outfitted NRs vs DIY NRs with regard to what they spend in Montana and what businesses benefit.

Valid point. I to would like to see numbers on this.
A lot of the NR and out of county hunters we see in eastern Montana bring their own camps/food/cans of gas. They inject next to nothing into our local
economy.
Out of the dozens of NR DIY guys I’ve quizzed I heard $1200(low) to 2200$(hightest). This was counting license, and travel expenses.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I find that argument to be a bunch of BS. When I hunt DIY NR the only thing I buy is gasoline.

That's just you ... and that is atypical. The "bunch of BS" is clearly evident when you see the NR vehicles parked outside bars, cafes, and motels during hunting season in towns like Ennis, Baker, Terry, Harlowton ... just to name a few. I think you planted the moniker "BS" elsewhere.

 

[Eric Albus]

...
I buy gas, groceries, eat in restaurants, drink in bars, buy souvenirs for the kids, and sometimes stay in hotels.

I buy gas, groceries, drink in bars, pay taxes, stay in hotels, a good number of my clients stay in motels and I “sometimes do too”, and I pay landowners and I pay guides and my clients pay taxidermists and processors and rent cars and drink/eat in bars and in case you missed it pay taxes and my landowners pay taxes on their lease checks and guides pay taxes on their wages.

 

[Eric Albus]

That's just you ... and that is atypical. The "bunch of BS" is clearly evident when you see the NR vehicles parked outside bars, cafes, and motels during hunting season in towns like Ennis, Baker, Terry, Harlowton ... just to name a few. I think you planted the moniker "BS" elsewhere.

Take a drive north of Terry and see the hundreds(slight exaggeration) of campers and tents set up. Those guys don’t spend much money in Montana.

 

[Gerald Martin]

The clients I build houses for are spending exponentially more than outfitted hunters.
A guaranteed tag would be a nice “value added”, touch for my business.

It would make that second home way more attractive to some if they knew they could hunt every year without having to bother with applications and the uncertainty of whether they will draw. Many have family and friends whom they want to hunt with.

I think one guaranteed tag for ten consecutive years for every $100K of home value is reasonable. This is only if they have their home built by a licensed MT contractor. That would equal $10K per tag brought into MT.

Expect to see a good “conservative capitalist” legislator to understand the value of this proposition.

Get to the back of the line with the rest of the peons. My industry deserves priority.

 

[tjones]

Take a drive north of Terry and see the hundreds(slight exaggeration) of campers and tents set up.

Your world is very small.

 

[BWALKER77]

That's just you ... and that is atypical. The "bunch of BS" is clearly evident when you see the NR vehicles parked outside bars, cafes, and motels during hunting season in towns like Ennis, Baker, Terry, Harlowton ... just to name a few. I think you planted the moniker "BS" elsewhere.

Most guys going to the trouble of NR DIY aren't holed up in bars.
And guided hunters sure visit those places too.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Take a drive north of Terry and see the hundreds(slight exaggeration) of campers and tents set up. Those guys don’t spend much money in Montana.

No exaggeration ... I'll bet many of the "hundreds" part with hundreds in cash at the Roy Rogers Bar, along with all those who stay at the motel and the hotel ... that is, if they can get a room during the heavily booked hunting season!

 

[Ben Lamb]

Most guys going to the trouble of NR DIY aren't holed up in bars.
And guided hunters sure visit those places too.

Bird hunters certainly are. Sept - December, you've got a parade of upland & waterfowl hunters running across the state, sitting in bars, eating in restaurants, sleeping in hotels, buying groceries, etc.

Angling makes up the most significant source of outfitting & nonoutfitting revenue - 90% of those sports are drinking in Ennis, Craig, Missoula, Hamilton, Twin, Sheridan, Dillon, Butte, Wisdom, Wise River, etc.

If folks want to really dig into the numbers, big game outfitters are going to see just how misrepresentative they are on this issue.