Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[Ben Lamb]

At least that weed you are smoking is now legal here... These ass clowns could invade the Capitol and still get elected. Now you will have to excuse me while I prepare to have a Senator from Maryland that wants to make America great again.

from now on your nickname is Max Goldman.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

So who's getting their outfitter license so we can "book" with you to get a tag? Charge everyone a small fee to put the ppwk together then we just tell anyone that stops us that our outfitter was drunk or stoned and stayed in camp today. Or just say "cuz Covid".

I'm thinking it needs to be called On Your Own Outfitters

 

[mtmuley]

I was kind of hoping Eric would chime in with his thoughts. He did through the whole course of thread until now. mtmuley

 

[Hunt West]

2 points every year assures outfitters’ clients will draw at least until the NR demand reaches a level that 2 points is longer 100% odds. I’m sure they will be back with their hand out again though. Sadly the original version of 143 was probably better than this garbage.

 

[257 Wby Mag]

Welfare tags for the Montana “natives” needs to go away, or priced accordingly with regular non resident prices.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I was kind of hoping Eric would chime in with his thoughts. He did through the whole course of thread until now. mtmuley

Crickets from the “we just want to help thin the crowds on public for the resident hunters” contingent of Hunttalk.

 

[TheJason]

Welfare tags for the Montana “natives” needs to go away, or priced accordingly with regular non resident prices.

Agreed

 

[Wildabeest]

I was kind of hoping Eric would chime in with his thoughts. He did through the whole course of thread until now. mtmuley

He and BigShooter are either off on an all week bender celebrating their “win” or too embarrassed to show their faces after the crooked shit they just pulled. Or both.

 

[BuzzH]

He and BigShooter are either off on an all week bender celebrating their “win” or too embarrassed to show their faces after the crooked shit they just pulled. Or both.

Naaa, they got what they wanted for this year, they won't be back until there's something in it for them again, or the ballot initiative passes to repeal this POS bill.

They don't give a shit about the resource, never have...its all about the pocket book.

 

[BuzzH]

Welfare tags for the Montana “natives” needs to go away, or priced accordingly with regular non resident prices.

If outfitters get their welfare...Natives may as well get some too.

 

[BlazerBeam]

Welfare tags for the Montana “natives” needs to go away, or priced accordingly with regular non resident prices.

Agreed

Why?

 

[Big Shooter]

He and BigShooter are either off on an all week bender celebrating their “win” or too embarrassed to show their faces after the crooked shit they just pulled. Or both.

No bender and no embarrassment! Too busy calving, sorting pairs and what not. I have no time for childish things such as benders and celebrating. I actually work for a living. The sky is not falling fellas! Hell.....Eric and I got blindsided by this ourselves. I’m not going to lie to you and say I don’t like it, but it’s not near as bad as some of you think. The talk of initiatives has been rampant.....which I figured it would be. In 2010 it was you folks that broke the trust agreement......not us! If you go back a few pages you will see one of your fearless leaders admit that. Just saying.

 

[SAJ-99]

I see no legal challenge being successful against this legislation and any attempt to do so would be a wasted effort that distracts from better avenues (initiative, elections, etc.). The state has wide discretion and outfitted vs. non-outfitted is not going to raise any equal protection or discrimination issues...any NR who wants to hire an outfitter is eligible to do so.

Yeah but… keep in mind this was done after the draw took place. It basically says “show me the cashed check made out to the outfitter and you get a tag”. This doesn’t apply going forward, in theory. You would need a class action from NRs who didn’t draw a general tag but didn’t book with an outfitter. They are being discriminated against in this particular year.
Legislators know this is probably unconstitutional but think they can get away with it because no DIY NR is willing to bring the case, class action or not. Pretty much any organization that brings it will be thrown out for lack of standing.

 

[SAJ-99]

No bender and no embarrassment! Too busy calving, sorting pairs and what not. I have no time for childish things such as benders and celebrating. I actually work for a living. The sky is not falling fellas! Hell.....Eric and I got blindsided by this ourselves. I’m not going to lie to you and say I don’t like it, but it’s not near as bad as some of you think. The talk of initiatives has been rampant.....which I figured it would be. In 2010 it was you folks that broke the trust agreement......not us! If you go back a few pages you will see one of your fearless leaders admit that. Just saying.

Who is “you folks” in that statement?

I harbor no bad will toward outfitters on this. I fully expect you to “cash the check”. I wonder what it will take for MT residents to wake up and realize they are being played as pawns in a larger game. Mostly this affects NRs in the short term, but it affects the resources we all enjoy in the long term. I just hope MOGA sees that the resource is the cash cow that gives the milk, not the legislators that give out freebies every two years. Just remember all the bills introduced to wage war on elk and deer. Eventually you (MOGA members) have to stand for something.

 

[HighWildFree]

I actually work for a living.

Boy I'm glad I don't have to work for a living.

I know it's tough being a rancher. I sat at a kitchen table one time while the outfitter wrote a check for $60,000. That rancher almost broke a sweat endorsing the check.

More F#$@% money than I make in a year, in about 30 seconds.

The funny thing is they wanted more the next year when we went back.

 

[Big Shooter]

Who is “you folks” in that statement?

I harbor no bad will toward outfitters on this. I fully expect you to “cash the check”. I wonder what it will take for MT residents to wake up and realize they are being played as pawns in a larger game. Mostly this affects NRs in the short term, but it affects the resources we all enjoy in the long term. I just hope MOGA sees that the resource is the cash cow that gives the milk, not the legislators that give out freebies every two years. Just remember all the bills introduced to wage war on elk and deer. Eventually you (MOGA members) have to stand for something.

We do stand for something!! Small businesses in rural MT! People that are trying to pay for ranches, mortgages, college tuitions.....the list goes on. That is what we stand for!

 

[Big Shooter]

Boy I'm glad I don't have to work for a living.

I know it's tough being a rancher. I sat at a kitchen table one time while the outfitter wrote a check for $60,000. That rancher almost broke a sweat endorsing the check.

More F#$@% money than I make in a year, in about 30 seconds.

The funny thing is they wanted more the next year when we went back.

But......I bet you didn’t have to pay for that ranch either.....or the every day expenses that occurred.

 

[TheJason]

We do stand for something!! Small businesses in rural MT! People that are trying to pay for ranches, mortgages, college tuitions.....the list goes on. That is what we stand for!

You and every other blue collar out there.

Work for a living? Implying some don’t? I thought you were smarter than that.

 

[shoots-straight]

No bender and no embarrassment! Too busy calving, sorting pairs and what not. I have no time for childish things such as benders and celebrating. I actually work for a living. The sky is not falling fellas! Hell.....Eric and I got blindsided by this ourselves. I’m not going to lie to you and say I don’t like it, but it’s not near as bad as some of you think. The talk of initiatives has been rampant.....which I figured it would be. In 2010 it was you folks that broke the trust agreement......not us! If you go back a few pages you will see one of your fearless leaders admit that. Just saying.

With all do respect Shooter, it was the outfitters that broke the deal. I was there the whole way.
So let me see:
Outfitters to Sportsmen: So if you agree to give us another 5500 tags that go to Outfitters only, they will be unlimited, but if we oversell then the next year prices will even out so only 5500 a year are sold. We will make sure that money goes into a fund that will open the door to massive amounts of lands to all, outright purchases, and leases. We will make sure that we keep the number of outfitters where they are today give or take, and we won't increase the competition on public lands.

So after a decade of this "Agreement" the Outfitters started to hire way more "Guides" than they had on hand in the beginning. For a fee, or hunting permission many outfitters were "Hiring" landowners as "Guides" working for them. Those "landowners" would make the money for guiding through the Outfitters license, and then either pay a fee or let the outfitter take clients on those lands.

Leased properties went through the roof in acreage and haven't left. Weird the tags are needed as both of you on this forum claim your booked.

Outfitters never joined in with sportsmen to acquire lands for "All" they never joined in with sportsmen, for the resource. They only showed up when it was time for a hand out, or when a restriction was possible, like limited entry tags. God forbid we raise the bar for wildlife vs some other special interest group.

So we tired of the "agreement" that was being abused yearly in over sales of tags leased lands blocking more access, crowding on public lands and decided to run the chance of an Initiative to do away with this OSL "Agreement".

I'm not sure what the next "Initiative" might look like, but I do know we are really not happy with MOGA a group that represents Outfitters.

The competition, and arrogance displayed towards the resident, and NR DIY sportsmen was on full display this session through MOGA. For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. Do you not agree?

You reap what you sow, and there's more seeds to follow this session. Underestimating the resident hunters resolve could have historic ramifications in todays political world. I'm half full.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

So you're telling me I only need to produce a copy of a cashed check to get a tag? Just upgraded my photoshop software baby! Who else needs a check? I'll have a sweat shop setup by the end of next week to take care of everyone's documentation needs for a small fee. That's what you call a small business Big Shooter. There's a need for a service and I step in to fill it so the average American can come enjoy hunting in Montana and help pay some mortgages for the next endangered species - the small business owner.

Also, identify as a vaccinated unicorn so I'm gonna need a welfare tag on top of my outfitter sponsored tag. Why should I have to go all the way to Portland every time I want some free sh&t?

And big shooter - college tuition is paid for by folks from out of state that frequent fine establishments like the Alaska Bush Company so good try. My buddies have put a lot of young ladies through nursing school with their generosity.

IMO this bill is ridiculous and needs to be flushed down the same toilet that the idiot who drafted it was sitting on when he thought of it. Hope he poked his finger through the TP too. . .