Non resident Landowner incentive.

[DFS]

There is no fixing the private land elk problem. It would make more sense to protect the elk that reside on public.

 

[Forkyfinder]

There is no fixing the private land elk problem. It would make more sense to protect the elk that reside on public.

Depends. Near you - they arent the same elk.

But thats not the story everywhere.

 

[antlerradar]

Depends. Near you - they arent the same elk.

But thats not the story everywhere.

Yes they are in many cases.

 

[Forkyfinder]

EHAs.

The important take away - juice worth the squeeze? Reduced funding, reduced opportunity for NR, and reduced premium bull tags - and the risk of putting easily amendable legislation into perpetual existence.

The juice is documented here. I dont think you will be calling the dentist from the juice being overly sweet

Heres some of my personal favs, ill provide my summary too:

Plebs have no chance, but heres a permit to shoot a bull.:

"This EHA has potential to provide a successful public hunting opportunity, but a smaller property. Landowner very likely to have success but unsure about public hunters depending on when they can hunt."

6 either sex bull tags, where 75 in the entire unit are given out. Someone spin how this is a good deal? Thats approaching the amount that ALL NR are provided for that unit. Im starting to get the sense id be mad as hell if i were @Treeshark

"Longtime access program participation and elk distribution/recurring game damage issues. This EHA has potential to provide a successful public hunting opportunity. Issuing an additional 6 permits beyond the recentlyreduced quota of 75 will likely not have a population-wide impact, but given those permits, in addition to the 10 proposed for R7, being used in such a localized area, there could be local, smaller-scale impacts."

We are giving out another permit bull tag, the public hunter is welcome to observe where the elk left after the sun comes up.

"Small acreage with the occasional elk in hay fields. Elk have been reported using the field for feed after dark. Hunters are placed in a blind near the field. "

These were also poop sandwhiches prior to the passing of 625. Repeal. And repeal it all.

 

[Forkyfinder]

In effect, this is what is happening with the 635 license pool. People use this license and then sign up for the EHA's to get the permit. That's a direct tie to access for a license/permit. The NBar is a prime example. Regardless of what you think of the Wilks, I'd I've been plenty sporty about them, they've embraced a more open approach to the EHA program because of the 635 pool.

No system is perfect and I think everyone is open to reformation, but a straight repeal tells folks who are moving in the right direction that they can #*^@#* off and die.

In summation a vastly superior bonus point pool, thats a near gaurantee for many LE tags, was not enough incentive.

If getting your coveted permit (often relatively speaking), doesnt work just promise some plebs some cows they wont see. Bahahaha

Anyone actually wonder why these LE units went to shit in the north central part of the state?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Yes they are in many cases.

If thats the case - these are even worse than i thought.

 

[Forkyfinder]

The problem with the 454 program is that those tags are in addition to the original quota. At least with landowner preference we aren’t giving out extra tags.

Seems relevent to bring back to the thread. Im glad you thought this was a problem 2 years ago.

 

[Forkyfinder]

A $1200 tag isn't going to make anyone spend $5 - $10 million on a ranch. For that same $5 million, you can go on a ton of guided hunts.

The people buying large ranches are not simply doing this for the license potential. It's far larger than that.

Worse - folks are literally marketing working ranches as ways to get tags in high value areas.

Montana's New Game-Changer: House Bill 635

House Bill 635 Empowers Non-Resident Landowners to hunt Elk on their own land, Plus Four other proven strategies for non-resident landowners to maximize their hunting odds.

landinvestorguide.com

This is just for the B10 license. No permits are included. NR LO's would still have to go through that process. The Wilks would likely keep the 454 agreements that they have. The access carrot is to enroll in Block, PAL, etc in order to qualify for the purchase of another bonus point.

To conclude:

1. Advertising sells things. I cant imagine the "tag" and associated games to get a high demand permit would be marketed if it wasnt selling.
2. The b10 license, plus the cute EHA trick, or the the NR LO permit pool, all but ensures you'll have the opportunity to hunt elk on your property. Whether its a high end permit or not.
3. The motivations for folks to buy bonus points, and preference points are diminished. It is speculative to assume the loss in revenue - but this forum is full of NR leaving bonus points in states. Its not non-zero and the motivations are permanent. Because of their decreasing value. Remember that the next time we talk budgets.
4. The lesson learned - we shouldnt give up anything for free, hoping for something nice in return.

At the very least - hope some folks learn a thing or two. Put this "hope" in your right hand and shit in your left. Tell me what fills up first!

 

[Carnage2011]

You’re having a conversation with yourself.

HB635 and the 454 program are two different things. I don’t care for the 454 program. I’d be fine it it got thrown out.

I don’t think 635 is having much of any effect on anything.

Keep your bills straight or you’re going to have a long confusing conversation with yourself.

 

[Carnage2011]

As far as your arguments for points go. Can you provide some stats to prove that bonus point purchases dropped since HB635 passed? Or is that all speculative?

 

[Forkyfinder]

You’re having a conversation with yourself.

HB635 and the 454 program are two different things. I don’t care for the 454 program. I’d be fine it it got thrown out.

I don’t think 635 is having much of any effect on anything.

Keep your bills straight or you’re going to have a long confusing conversation with yourself.

625 was sold as things that would improve the 454 program. Sorry you dont like the receipts.

What it did was expand its abuse. You should have cared then. You can now - because it could get repealed.

 

[Forkyfinder]

As far as your arguments for points go. Can you provide some stats to prove that bonus point purchases dropped since HB635 passed? Or is that all speculative?

A reduction in permits for a LE entry doesnt do anything for incentives to purchase bonus points? Ever heard of "supply" and "demand"?

Sorry if thats a big leap of faith for you.

 

[Carnage2011]

A reduction in permits for a LE entry doesnt do anything for incentives to purchase bonus points? Ever heard of "supply" and "demand"?

Sorry if thats a big leap of faith for you.

Show me the proof? I can give you a whole bunch of examples the opposite way.

It’s not a leap of faith at all. I’m a numbers go…show me the proof.

 

[Carnage2011]

625 was sold as things that would improve the 454 program. Sorry you dont like the receipts.

What it did was expand its abuse. You should have cared then. You can now - because it could get repealed.

I’m not familiar with HB625. Are you confusing your bill numbers again?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Show me the proof? I can give you a whole bunch of examples the opposite way.

It’s not a leap of faith at all. I’m a numbers go…show me the proof.

Why dont you show the benefit?

Or do we just pass shit for our rich pals hoping to find it?

 

[Carnage2011]

Why dont you show the benefit?

Or do we just pass shit for our rich pals hoping to find it?

Stop avoiding the question. You said it resulted in lost revenue due to people not wanting to buy points. Show the proof. If you can’t then just admit that you have nothing to support it.

Also, do you understand how the NR draw works in LE areas?

Are we talking about HB635 now? Or HB637? Or was it HB625?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Stop avoiding the question. You said it resulted in lost revenue due to people not wanting to buy points. Show the proof. If you can’t then just admit that you have nothing to support it.

Also, do you understand how the NR draw works in LE areas?

Are we talking about HB635 now? Or HB637? Or was it HB625?

Are supply and demand for a product not related? Just because sales are up - doesnt mean the incentives to buy it are up. I guess you dont have the brainpower to see it - given you were duped into this and havent pointed out a single benefit with merit - im not shocked.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Stop avoiding the question. You said it resulted in lost revenue due to people not wanting to buy points. Show the proof. If you can’t then just admit that you have nothing to support it.

Also, do you understand how the NR draw works in LE areas?

Are we talking about HB635 now? Or HB637? Or was it HB625?

Great point. Argue over a typo. God help your clients if you are a lawyer hahahahah.

Let me see if i get your position. The 454 program sucks. But its no problem that 635 expands and abuses it. Lmfao

 

[Carnage2011]

Are supply and demand for a product not related? Just because sales are up - doesnt mean the incentives to buy it are up. I guess you dont have the brainpower to see it - given you were duped into this and havent pointed out a single benefit with merit - im not shocked.

Ah yes, when you have no way to prove your point let’s start the insults. You obviously can’t have an adult conversation with facts. Continue arguing with yourself. If you ever want to have a real conversation let me know. I can explain the NR LE draw for you. You already said you just started paying attention to this stuff recently. You might make sure your facts are straight before you come in as the “expert.”

 

[Forkyfinder]

Ah yes, when you have no way to prove your point let’s start the insults. You obviously can’t have an adult conversation with facts. Continue arguing with yourself. If you ever want to have a real conversation let me know. I can explain the NR LE draw for you. You already said you just started paying attention to this stuff recently. You might make sure your facts are straight before you come in as the “expert.”

How about you start by saying this program is a meritless abusive piece of trash? Or - point out all the good its done by it? You and @Gerald Martin pointed out i cant prove that it hurt point sales.

I guess had i not said that - youd have nothing to refute. What a mistake pointing out potential unrealized damage amongst all the other problems. I guess then id really be bumping it all to the top alone, huh.

You havent provided a single benefit - other than this was allegedly going to reduce NR crowding. Wheres your "numbers" on that? "Expert"??