NM Public/Private State Lands Encounter Last Weekend - What Would You Do?

[BrokenArrow]

So, thanks to everyone who chimes in on this thread or otherwise!
All I can say is that NM has some amazing terrain and BIG pronghorn. I did not take one down last weekend. Mainly because I found a very heavy horned buck and got stars in my eyes. I kinda only focused on him, then ran out of time. I feel extremely blessed to draw and hunt my first out of state tag ever. Pronghorn spot and stalk is for the insane by the way. Just look up the definition of insanity and you'll get an idea of the pattern. See Horns, put on gear, and then go get schooled by binocular vision. So much fun though.

But, I do have a small issue to bring up. It concerns property boundaries. Please know that I never want to be the guy that trespasses.
So, here we go:
I was heading back to my truck after a failed morning stalk, which was parked on NM state land. There happened to be 7 cowboys on horseback waiting for me. Not wranglers, but cowboys from a working cattle ranch that was adjacent. I know the difference.
Needless to say, I had followed my OnX to state land via a county road. Where the county road ends (which was not marked private) I proceeded up to the state land "island" which I was camped/hunting on. The guys told me I had trespassed and had already called the sheriff. I was a little bummed to here that. I guessed that previously someone before me f'd it up for all of us and the cowboys didn't trust anybody anymore. Anyway, I yes sir'd and no sir'd until we became friends and all of us were laughing and smiling. I would rather be friends than foes. The sheriff came and told the guys that I had every right to be there. That's was all well, but I had learned through conversation that the ranch had leases and landowner tags. I was a former guide in CO for 10 years and understand what it feels like to have public folks on the outskirts for your camp while your trying to make money with paying customers. Without a second thought, I told the guys I would take off and find a new spot.
I did lose some time relocating, but had an awesome experience/day finding a new spot. And big shout out to Danomite (Rokslide member) and AggieOutlaw (Hunt Talk member) who helped me find a great general area to settle on.
Northern NM is beautiful, the people are awesome, the ecosystem is way more diverse than I imagined. It's just a good place to be. I'm headed back tonight to close out the season this weekend and I'll write more on that later.

So, I have to ask: What would you have done concerning the landowner issue? Would you stay or go? Just curious...

Good luck out there! The hunting season is upon us!

 

[hank4elk]

In NM the degree of use is up to the folks who have the lease. Most state lands are closed to camping.
Local rancher I know finally stopped allowing folks to camp on 2 places near me.Just too must damage,theft & trash. Access is still allowed for hunting.
I have gotten good intel from some local St lands & BLM folks on what's the skinny where. Field guys,not office memes.

 

[MN Public Hunter]

So let me see if I'm getting this correct. They tell you that you trespassed, which I'm sure they know you didn't, they call the sheriff who says you have not broken any law and not trespassed and you up and left? You were on public land and had a right to be there, I personally would have never left. They probably pull this on a lot of people and I hope I never run into it because if someone is going to lie to me and say I was trespassing and I was not I would not be as friendly as you were. On the other hand the bad part if is they were low enough to lie to you about trespassing how would you feel about leaving your truck and all of your stuff to hunt knowing these type of jerks are around and who knows what else they will do. Pretty sad.

 

[npaden]

I'm assuming you had an archery tag?

New Mexico has some pretty odd rules on their any weapon tags. You are assigned to individual ranches that have a mix of public/private land. By accepting the tag from the state my understanding is that you agree to their rules which do not allow you to hunt public land anywhere else except the ranch that you are assigned to.

I do think that for Archery you can hunt any public land.

I would imagine that is where the cowboys got confused.

If I had a good buck located in the original area I would have kept after it and not relocated.

 

[BrokenArrow]

All good feedback for sure. There are two catches here.
1.The county road I traveled ended and terminated the extent of public property readily accessible from a state highway, but there was no signage by the ranch landowner. So, I traveled onward. Technically, I did trespass unknowingly to reach the "island" of public land beyond the county road, which means I had the right to cross private property since it wasn't denoted.
2. The patch of State Land was surrounded by Private at that point. It wasn't a very large section. Maybe 250-300 acres. I had been busted by the buck twice in two days and had the feeling that he wasn't coming back. I could have waited it out. This scenario seemed very low chance of success. Or I could go explore other areas that hold Antelope and learn more of the country than stay pigeonholed.
So, they said that since I was nice and understanding of the situation, I could call back and get permission to cross their property and hunt free of charge at a later date. So, I guess there was a pretty decent compromise on both sides. Basically, I was going to leave anyway, and spun it into hunting a good chunk of land at later date if I draw a tag.
What I do also agree with is that I did have the right not to leave, I just chose to do so in this case. They don't hate private hunters yet, but I could have changed that.
And yes, Npaden I do hold an archery tag.

 

[hank4elk]

Did you know the public lands ended & private started?
Was the road a county rd? st? fed?
Did you know the little chunk of public land was landlocked?
Was it State Trust Lands or BLM? The landlocked chunk & access rt lands.

 

[esracerx]

Maybe I'm wrong since I'm not familiar with pronghorn. But it sounds like we're talking about draw tag vs Landowner A-plus tags. A draw tag, regardless of weapon is good for any public land. An A-plus tag is dependent on what the ranch was issued by state. You can use any sporting arm during the any sporting arm season. Meaning you can use a bow,ML, or rifle...but you can't use a bow on an any legal sporting arm tag during the bow season. The ranch owner can request the tag to be unit wide or ranch only. If the tag has a unit wide designation, they have to open it up for public hunting. Finding what ranch is what and where the boundaries are is pretty difficult. It takes a public records request and a fee of .75 cents per page. Even then, what the ranchers submit will vary.

I may have moved...if the cowboys offered up some good intel. I come across roads often that start and stop in public, but go through private. I've come across cowboys before and he was one of the nicest guys I've ever met. I wish I knew what happened to him. Last I saw he had a missing person report on him which is worrisome. He showed us around the ranch and even cooked us dinner. He had said the biggest nuisance he sees is woodcutters.

What's interesting is even after the sheriff said you were good, they still say you trespassed and want to charge you for driving a county road. Did I read that right? Or were they gracious enough to allow you to hunt private? Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought their was an easement that allowed you to drive on NF and county roads through private. Hank, feel free to enlighten me.

 

[LopeHunter]

My take on this is the cowboys were punks. Too lazy and cheap to mark the private land boundary in a state where appears the landowner has the burden to mark the boundary. Most of the states where I go hunting leave it up to the hunter or hiker or birdwatcher to know where they are which is fair.

If a state instead says a landowner must mark the boundary then if the landowner cares about limiting access they need to pony up some cash and get busy. That is the law. If the boundary is not marked then why would the assumption be the landowner does not want people venturing onto their property? Some landowners are not local and do not mind if people hunt. How would you know if that is the case or not? How would you find who owns the land then drive to where have cell coverage, then maybe leave a message, etc? Mark the boundary and no one is confused.

I used to hunt in NM when was a bit easier for a non-resident to pull a pronghorn tag and back then the landowner provided a map to F&G. One of the maps I got was a hand drawn map with zero identifiable features you could match back to an official map of the unit. No working phone number. No house. Hear shots opening morning and the landowner/guide had his guys all dialed in. Was midday before figured out the boundaries and only because his guys tagged out and he stopped by me on the gravel road to ask if was lost. Nice. Thanks NM F&G. Thanks Landowner. Perhaps F&G puts a bit more effort into the program now but that was crappy on a 3-day hunt type hunt.

 

[npaden]

Maybe I'm wrong since I'm not familiar with pronghorn. But it sounds like we're talking about draw tag vs Landowner A-plus tags. A draw tag, regardless of weapon is good for any public land. An A-plus tag is dependent on what the ranch was issued by state. You can use any sporting arm during the any sporting arm season. Meaning you can use a bow,ML, or rifle...but you can't use a bow on an any legal sporting arm tag during the bow season. The ranch owner can request the tag to be unit wide or ranch only. If the tag has a unit wide designation, they have to open it up for public hunting. Finding what ranch is what and where the boundaries are is pretty difficult. It takes a public records request and a fee of .75 cents per page. Even then, what the ranchers submit will vary.

You are wrong on this. In New Mexico a draw tag does not allow you to hunt on any public land in the unit that you drew for the any weapon tags. You are assigned a ranch and you are required to hunt that ranch. You can hunt the private and public land on that ranch only. If the ranch is small and doesn't have any antelope you have to get permission to get assigned to a different ranch. It's a very odd setup.

My understanding is that does not apply to the archery tags though but I'm not positive.

 

[mhkowalski]

A drawn antelope archery tag allows you to hunt on public land in the drawn unit.

 

[esracerx]

You are wrong on this. In New Mexico a draw tag does not allow you to hunt on any public land in the unit that you drew for the any weapon tags. You are assigned a ranch and you are required to hunt that ranch. You can hunt the private and public land on that ranch only. If the ranch is small and doesn't have any antelope you have to get permission to get assigned to a different ranch. It's a very odd setup.
My understanding is that does not apply to the archery tags though but I'm not positive.

Yep. I was wrong. I've only applied for elk and had no idea pronghorn was so weird. After reading regs it appears it doesn't apply to archery, youth, or mobility impaired. Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[hank4elk]

I have never even applied for antelope in NM.
Every time I look at the regs on them I get a headache. Throw in the stories I hear of no maps,assigned ranches locked, etc & I get a dozey.
I do know if I drew one I would make damn sure I knew where the ranch was,and have a map in hand...as I would have hounded the ranch contact,the G&F and the state/county about access.
From what I can make out the archery tags are the only ones that you can hunt one or 2 units on public lands with,if it is accessable....

I had to submit several maps & a plot map of my land with features to enter into the E-plus outside the COER elk landowner program & update the contact info every year. The last time I saw my file when I was putting a co-op of 12 ranches together 3 yrs ago,2 maps were missing from it.The marked section of BLM map & the section of a USGS topo that was marked. I have since gotten out of the co-op & back to stand alone.

I do know every year I find a road that I had been using with a locked gate or posted.I always check my data & ask G&F or local law. The old boy school bs just pisses me off,with a road the county has maintained & was public,now private. I still found a way into the public lands there,but it is a hike now.
If I know I am on a public road & on or next to public lands,no one is running me out. But then again I am armed, with data too.

 

[npaden]

Yep. I was wrong. I've only applied for elk and had no idea pronghorn was so weird. After reading regs it appears it doesn't apply to archery, youth, or mobility impaired. Thanks for setting me straight.

Sorry, reading that again I came across pretty strong. Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to make sure it got cleared up.

I drew an antelope tag in New Mexico a few years ago and got assigned to a small ranch with no antelope. I was stuck hoping some might get pressured and cross over the ranch. I asked to get reassigned and they said I had to hunt that ranch the first day (I think it was a 2 day season) and then they could reassign me the next day. The day of the hunt sure enough there were no antelope on the ranch (actually I passed on about a 10"er) and I asked to be reassigned but the local game warden had some personal issues and was out so they couldn't reassign me although I went and checked out the options on other ranches that were open to reassignment and they were all about the same.

After that I realized that drawing the tag is important but the ranch that you end up getting assigned is probably just as important. Really an odd deal.

 

[AggieOutlaw]

BrokenArrow, I'm sorry you had that negative experience. You did the right thing by deescalating the situation and moving on. I've had several similar experiences, all out in Eastern NM too. Land owners lease state grass but not state land. They like to pretend they don't know the difference. Technically, those cowboys could have been cited by a Game Warden for interfering with a lawful hunt.

Be careful not to camp on State Land in NM. It is not public land and camping is not allowed. You could be cited for that. Try to find nearby BLM land or USFS grassland.

I always try to have the Game Wardens number in my phone for each unit. So when I get approached I can tell the accuser to hang on. I'll call the Warden and explain my side of the story and self report if I did something wrong. The accusers do not expect that and quickly recognize that 1) I mean to violate no law and 2) they tried to screwe the wrong guy.

Hopefully this did not leave a foul taste in your mouth for NM hunting. I'd like to say it was atypical but it does happen too often, sadly. Just keep hunting your accessible lands and fighting for access. Join BHA and always carry OnX maps.

Cheers and good luck on the rest of the hunt! I'll be out that way next weekend. So leave me a good buck!

 

[WapitiBob]

"The guys told me I had trespassed and had already called the sheriff."

I'd read up on NM trespass laws.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Did you know the public lands ended & private started?
Was the road a county rd? st? fed?
Did you know the little chunk of public land was landlocked?
Was it State Trust Lands or BLM? The landlocked chunk & access rt lands.

Hey, Hank
1. & 2. I followed OnX onto a CR which is a public easement in NM. at the end of the CR, there was a cattle guard and piece of weathered, sun-bleached, raw plywood that supposedly denoted Private Property at some point in the past. The road was maintained the same before and after the cattle guard. Since there was no current sign, no one would have known that the CR ended there.
3. & 4. I did know that the State Trust land was landlocked and that's exactly why I was going there. Small chunk of land, out of the way, and accessed by the public. I hate hunting near other people only because I like the solitude during archery. I'll camp with whoever during rifle. More fun with friends in those seasons.

Maybe I'm wrong since I'm not familiar with pronghorn. But it sounds like we're talking about draw tag vs Landowner A-plus tags. A draw tag, regardless of weapon is good for any public land. An A-plus tag is dependent on what the ranch was issued by state. You can use any sporting arm during the any sporting arm season. Meaning you can use a bow,ML, or rifle...but you can't use a bow on an any legal sporting arm tag during the bow season. The ranch owner can request the tag to be unit wide or ranch only. If the tag has a unit wide designation, they have to open it up for public hunting. Finding what ranch is what and where the boundaries are is pretty difficult. It takes a public records request and a fee of .75 cents per page. Even then, what the ranchers submit will vary.

I may have moved...if the cowboys offered up some good intel. I come across roads often that start and stop in public, but go through private. I've come across cowboys before and he was one of the nicest guys I've ever met. I wish I knew what happened to him. Last I saw he had a missing person report on him which is worrisome. He showed us around the ranch and even cooked us dinner. He had said the biggest nuisance he sees is woodcutters.

What's interesting is even after the sheriff said you were good, they still say you trespassed and want to charge you for driving a county road. Did I read that right? Or were they gracious enough to allow you to hunt private? Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought their was an easement that allowed you to drive on NF and county roads through private. Hank, feel free to enlighten me.

I drew an open Archery tag that is good for multiple units.
Also, they were not trying to charge me. They had paying customers this year for the animals on the ranch. They said if I drew another tag, they wouldn't charge for hunting the ranch if I gave them heads up beforehand. I thought that was very generous. They also offered this to me after I told them I would get out of their hair. They didn't have to do that.
I Guess maybe they had a run in with a not so nice hunter in the past. I just tried to live the golden rule in this situation. Maybe it really paid off this time.
I know that by selling some tags to out of stater's they can make some much needed income in a place that doesn't have a lot of options. That is ultimately why I left. I didn't want to alter the good thing they had going. I feel they were willing to share that when they realized I wasn't there to exploit the ecosystem or their ranch. I just wanted to see a new place and explore new country. Oh yea, and get a pronghorn with a bow. I almost forgot...