Forkyfinder
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All about the NR, at all costs, eh?
New Mexico Privatization. Nuthin like it
- Thread starter abqbw
- Start date
I have no idea what that means.
New Mexico’s system is very beneficial to the residents of NM- that’s why they choose to keep things the way they are.
NR’s don’t get to make the rules, we just play the hand we are dealt.
brocksw
Well-known member
40% of all NM elk tags are privatized, aka “transferable”. We can guess how many of those are affordable to everyday New Mexicans…
IIRC, something like 70% of New Mexico Resident applicants get turned down in the resident draw for an elk tag every year.
New Mexico’s system is very beneficial to the landowners and rich non-residents - that’s why the public’s voice doesn’t matter.
Also hugely beneficial to the non-hunting resident stakeholders, which significantly outnumber the amount of resident hunters.
(Not to mention extremely beneficial for the elk themselves, obviously).
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seeth07
Well-known member
Rich non-residents? The going rate for a NM elk voucher is approaching very quickly to the normal cost of an elk tag for a NR across the west. Factor in the quality of the hunt both in the experience, the elk, the beauty of the landscape and honestly it probably is right on par.
These vouchers are not fetching 25k-50k like some of the CO, Utah and Wyoming permits are. Last year I was seriously considering and trying to figure out how to fit it into my schedule when I was offered a bull MZ voucher for only 5k.
brocksw
Well-known member
Tell that to a New Mexico resident. I'd guess there was not a 99.98% discount for being a NM resident?
I know there are some tags that go for that low, but my understanding is that is the bottom end, and it only goes up from there. If for some reason, $5,000 for a single elk tag is a justification in support of NM's eplus system, I'm not convinced. But it is very interesting to me that a $5k elk tag is being waved around as the example to use here.
That is a great deal for everyone involved, and it does not exclude blue-collar hunters- be they resident or non-resident.
seeth07
Well-known member
As a resident of Wisconsin, I would give up my entire annual salary and figure out a way to make it work to pay for an elk tag in my state. There hasn't been one ever auctioned off but if there ever was, I'd put my money where my mouth is for sure, you can quote me on this thread post to hold me to it (assuming that it is still the same rare, unique, cool experience that it is now).
brocksw
Well-known member
FYI, every single landowner in that table drew a tag. So, whatever SCR draw odds are, every single acreage in that table drew a tag.
244 were 20 acres or under
548 were 50 acres or under
846 were 100 acres of under
87 landowners got over 20 tags.
20 landowners got over 50 tags
one landowner had 114 tags
another landowner had 246 tags
How many New Mexican residents came up empty handed in the New Mexico resident elk draw? Was it 50,000?
brocksw
Well-known member
I fail to see how your willingness to make poor financial decisions justifies the Eplus system.
seeth07
Well-known member
Since you are so good with all those numbers, what is the number of acres opened up to public access for all of those ranches in that list? If it is UW in the list, its open to the public correct?
seeth07
Well-known member
A poor financial decision would be believing you and thinking that you can simply just buy a property like this:
Western Mora, Mora, NM 87732 | Zillow
This is a Vacant Land. It is located at Western Mora, Mora, NM.
www.zillow.com
and then magically just like that get 20k NM UW elk vouchers. A complete ROI in just 4 years? Wow that sounds amazing sign me up!
I'm guessing the reality is that the buyer would have to go through a process to get into the program that likely costs them 50-100k in habitat improvements to be eligible assuming the property is in a location where it makes sense (not sure if this one example exactly is but I did try to find one that wasn't one of many 20 acre lots located in the desert or in a subdivision type area). Then after that, they are just in a draw to have a chance at a tag so maybe it takes a few years to actually get one. So the complete full ROI ends up being more probably like 50 years?
Valley1320
Well-known member
Not sure on how much different the primary management zone is to the secondary but I'm friends with a rancher in the secondary management zone that just signed up so they could get elk tags vouchers, whatever they are called. And said it was super easy and and didn't have to spend a dime
not taking sides in this, just passing on what I got told.The requirements are right there in the E-Plus program applications.
The re-evalutions on all ranches was supposed to be done 4 years ago. It affected 3 or 4 units the last time.
My unit was affected heavy, half the tags went back into the public draw. 60% private & 40% state or blm. Checkerboarded.
One of the highest densities in the state. Elk wise. Or was.
I lucked out and bought land with water, underground. Like most of NM.
I made improvements. I did the work. RMEF offered to pay for half a solar pump, after I paid for it.
There are 3 times the elk in this area than 15 years ago.
I'd like to think part of that is due to me.
I doubt that.
I just gave them a chance.
The re-evalutions on all ranches was supposed to be done 4 years ago. It affected 3 or 4 units the last time.
My unit was affected heavy, half the tags went back into the public draw. 60% private & 40% state or blm. Checkerboarded.
One of the highest densities in the state. Elk wise. Or was.
I lucked out and bought land with water, underground. Like most of NM.
I made improvements. I did the work. RMEF offered to pay for half a solar pump, after I paid for it.
There are 3 times the elk in this area than 15 years ago.
I'd like to think part of that is due to me.
I doubt that.
I just gave them a chance.
David58
Well-known member
Do you realize that 5k for a tag is totally out of the reach of most New Mexicans? Look at the poverty level in this state, the above reference to wealthy NRs is correct when you consider the likely income of many if not most of NM's resident hunters.
The system is broken, at least from the perspective of the resident NM hunter who is not a property owner. I do not have a solution, we need the good of EPlus, we need to ditch the bad of EPlus.
David
NM
I understand your point here- but from the perspective of the majority of NM stakeholders (resident landowners + resident non-hunters), as well the resource itself, this system works really well.
seeth07
Well-known member
I'd be interested in knowing of the resident hunting annual licenses sold, what percent of them are to people that live on or own more than 20 acres or immediate family does. I'm betting it's pretty high just like here in WI
brownbear932008
Well-known member
Agreed, I'll never understand how people mysteriously think that these tags will end up in their pockets and they will all of a sudden be able to hunt these ranches possibly. The first thing that will happen is those doors will close totally. It does need revamped no doubt and I'm not a fan of unit wide tags in the program for sure.
But, overall it's a great system in NM and folks should be careful with changing it because the grass may not be as green on the other side.
ImBillT
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My understanding is that they definitely give some unit wide tags to ranches that no one is actually going to hunt, and that a lot of the big ranches that we would like to hunt, choose to go with ranch only instead of unit wide, but I do like the fact that unit wide tags make the ranch open to the public. It seems like they may need to tweak the implementation of that part of the system.
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Valley1320
Well-known member
The problem with the unit wide deal is alot of those ranches don't have elk on them during hunting season, or very few. Or you get those guys that keep their unit wide ranch locked up during elk season and try to run all the hunters off. I know not all are that way but there are plenty that are. Just last year in the gila there was a video of a helicopter being used to herd elk onto private property circulating around on Facebook. It got reported but never heard anything come of it. I'm not against eplus but there definitely needs to be some tweaking or something.
