Have you looked at the Absolute Hunters? they take a pretty big BC hit so the extra velocity will blead off quick but ~200 FPS gains over standard bullets. I am getting 3130 with the 151 AH vs 2900 with 150 TTSXs out of my 308win.
New 300 Sherman build
- Thread starter Addicting
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Have you looked at the Absolute Hunters? they take a pretty big BC hit so the extra velocity will blead off quick but ~200 FPS gains over standard bullets. I am getting 3130 with the 151 AH vs 2900 with 150 TTSXs out of my 308win.
Sorry, I'm not sure what happened with this reply... I had typed more but seems like it was cut off and it makes my reply sound combative. I am not, just trying to learn. I don't own a 280 or 280ai so I can't measure to confirm but both seem to have longer bodies, presumably to ensure that someone doesn't accidentally fire one in the wrong gun.
again thanks for the all the info.
-Matt
Addicting
Well-known member
Your over thinking it and splitting hairs on the two AIs. You won’t know the difference even with a labradar.
The thing to look at is the reamer print. I would bet alot of gunsmiths use a 280ai reamer with a 30 cal pilot. That way they can make everything from a 280ai to a 338-06ai with the same carbide finish reamer and then just cut the neck. So either brass will chamber and fire if they do that. You need to look at the reamer print if you want a specific 30-06ai. Then look at all the dimensions, body taper on both change too.
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Addicting
Well-known member
I have and under 500 yards BC means squat. Although I have and do shoot farther my hunting is usually 2-300 yards. The 15lbs of powder I have on hand already is more of a driving factor of what weight bullet to use.
Addicting
Well-known member
Also that Nosler load data in the 30-06ai is out of date with today’s modern powders. In my experience I add around 100fps to all of their max FPS. For the Sherman you get about 3 grains more capacity, that you will absolutely notice over either type of AI.
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Addicting
Well-known member
I did some light reading on this as .097 seemed like a lot. On Nosler wildcat version of the AI may be. However, if you look at Sammi drawing for each parent cartridge the 30-06 is 2.1086 to the neck where it will start it’s headspace. That measurement may not change when you look at the AI reamer you rent. Some reamers move that back a few thousands to give a crush fit, but that .001-.002 is mostly insignificant in case capacity.
A Sammi 280ai is 2.1741 so .0655 longer. So you may get a grain more powder but not overall any more noticeable shooting it. Especially, seeing very few reloaded run their reloads at absolute max capacity verses finding a node the barrel likes and using that.
Now, the Sherman is 2.198, so .0894 longer than the 06ai. Almost all the taper is also removed. This equals about 2.5-3 grains more powder. Starting to get noticeable difference on speed.
What does all this mean? For hunting under 500 about 5 inches of drop. To the deer or elk, nothing they are still gonna die. For going out to 1000, there are much better cartridges where none of this FF crap is needed.
I hope this explains things better.
It does. I agree that it essentially doesn't matter, especially when it is a known difference and therefore can be accounted for. I went an looked at Noslers data on their website and found the difference between what I was using and what you have found. The lengths they show for the 30-06 and the 280AI align with the numbers you found on the SAMMI page. What I didn't pick up on before was that the shoulder neck junction on the 30-06AI is different than what I would have expected. On their page the neck shoulder junction is 0.040 shorter than on the standard 30-06 not the ~0.002 that I would have expected. If you add that 0.040 length back into the body and make the neck/shoulder junction the same as the standard 30-06 that drops the difference in body length of the 30-06AI and the 280AI from 0.097 to 0.057.
Comparing the standard 30-06 and the 30x280AI, I am calculating a 0.149 increase in case body length plus the extra capacity due to the reduced body taper (Sherman should be roughly 0.173 longer than the standard 06). I think that it may be a reasonable middle ground for increase in performance while still maintaining longer case life and less brass prep than the 300 Sherman. Would you agree?
Thanks again for your input/discussion.
-Matt
Addicting
Well-known member
I would agree but don’t think it’s the best bang for the bucks to do any of these in this component shortage.
280ai brass is next to impossible to find. If you do find it you will need to hold on to your wallet.
270, 280 brass is plentiful but the powder, primer, and bullets to FF it are not.
You loose a lot of neck length when AIing a cartridge. Starting with 06 brass is a disadvantage seeing it already has a shorter neck.
If it were me, I would build a 300 PRC. It has the advantages of more available brass and the capacity your after without running compressed loads. Slightly better performance and no FF cases with components being a premium.
I am pretty sure that mine is going to get rechambered to it after my moose hunt.
Thanks! I really appreciate your thoughts/inputs.
grizzly63
Well-known member
I was going to suggest he just buy a 300wm if that is the kind of ballistics he is looking for but then I remembered this is America and he can do whatever he wants. Its his dream and money.
