Need some help with Judging Sheep

[BigHornRam]

Neat area and should be a fun hunt. I've seen rams down low by the roads in November there. Most likely going to be higher up and in some timber when you guys will be hunting. Older rams will generally be darker, broomed, and more rough, not smooth near the bases. If you get a shot of cold weather, listen for them butting heads. Sounds like muffled gunshots. Right conditions like a weather change and they will start going at it even in September. Your expectations on horn size in that area is spot on, look for an older ram and don't care about what he scores. Hope your friend has a hunt of his lifetime!

 

[BigHornRam]

This is an 8 or 9 year old middle fork ram. Small body, the taxidermist used a Dall sheep form on him. 14 inch bases and 160 overall. Horns do not drop below the jaw line on this ram. You can see where the horns were getting rough in the last few years of slow growth around the bases.

 

[BigHornRam]

Here are a few live sheep pics to look at from the local herd. Oldest one here looks to be 5 or 6. Bases are probably 15" or less. The ram in the middle and the one on the left have darker coats and beat up noses from the rut.

 

[mtmiller]

If you see one like this, shoot it. 209 1/8" 10 months after this picture was taken.

 

[sacountry]

I've watched rams in 28 from the 27 side of the river.....There are 180" rams in there, but they are not common

If I had the tag, and found a mature ram, I'd kill it. I wouldn't care if scored 150" or 180".

I got all knotted up on a legitimate 180+ ram in 27 years ago, and as a result, passed a couple rams that I should have killed.

I'm envious! Move less, glass more, don't ever try to bump or push a ram out to the shooter. Sheep do not take the path of least resistance like deer and elk.

Mature rams are easy to see, even at long distance. Body size and shape and if they are less than a mile, they look like they have a tire hanging on their head. At long distance it looks like a bowling ball for a head.

You will know it when you see it, there is no doubt!

Early October of 2019, myself and a tag holder found ourselves perched above two mature rams.

They knew something was up and I had about 15 seconds to decide which was the better ram, while the tag holder got set up for the shot.

In 15 hurried seconds I could tell no difference, both were great, mature rams for this unit. He rifled the one that gave a broadside angle vs a quartering away.

The ram measured low 170's and was aged at 12+.

Enjoy the hunt!

12 years old and is carrying mass through the curl. This is a nice ram! How'd a ram that old taste?

 

[treedagain]

For the most part on my sheep hunts the rams did not move more than 10 yards overnight. My Nevada ram from last year I shot in the same bed that I put him in the night before. But most were in rough cliffy stuff. Hard enough to navigate in the light. The ones that did move were on full moon nights

 

[BuzzH]

Some more rams to look at.

A friends bighorn from Montana. Bases are 15 inches right on the dot, officially scored 179 and change net. Both horns are over 40, 10.5 years old. As others have said, the growth rings at the base really stack up on older rams. If you see a lot of distance between rings near the horn bases, young ram. If you have a decent spotting scope its pretty easy to see that even at long range.

My Dad's Montana ram, 8.5 years old, net scored 183 and change. From the front, you can see the drop, the long horn was just over 40:

Young Montana ram...IIRC, he was 5.5 or 6.5 years old and I doubt the bases were much over 14, length was maybe 34-35. Pretty ram but real tight curl:

Same ram:

Mid 170's type ram, probably around 6.5 or so:

Another probably in the mid 160's and only 5.5 years old:

 

[huntid73]

One thing to remember about Idaho now is that there is no 3/4 curl requirement any more....so if any ram gets the tag holder excited, then I'd say make the move!

 

[MTGomer]

I’d look for mass and learn how to judge age.
Personally, I think a goal of 8 years old is a great goal. If you have the luxury of looking over a bunch of sheep and can find the ‘look’ that you like, combined with some age, that’s a great ram.

A 165, 11 year old broomed off old mountain ram is twice the ram a 172, 6 year old with lamb tips is, in my opinion.

 

[BuzzH]

My Wyoming ram from last year, 9.5 years old score is 161 and change gross. Bases are 14 and the long horn is 33 2/8 short horn is 32 5/8. My goal was to have a good sheep hunt and try to take a ram at least 7.5 years old. Got everything I wanted.

As far as some things I learned about the rams in Wyoming where I hunted, they bed in the open for the most part. If they bed in "trees" its usually right at timberline or on the edge of the open in very sparse timber. You hear a lot about rams being timber rats, but I think its actually pretty rare. The guy that helped me out in Wyoming has done a lot of sheep hunting and according to him, he thought it was pretty rare that a ram would really live in the timber that much. It happens, but their chances of being picked off by a lion would increase a lot if they spent a significant part of their life in heavy timber.

We glassed rams in thick timber, but out of the 60+ rams we found a vast majority were in the wide open, with a few in very scattered, short, stunted trees, and we found 2 rams that were actually in some pretty heavy timber, but close to the edge of the open.

Every area is different for sure, but for the most part, IME, sheep like the open.

You'll have a lot of fun wearing out your legs and eyes...enjoy it.

 

[Huntnut60]

If you see one like this, shoot it. 209 1/8" 10 months after this picture was taken.

Only in our dreams.

 

[nazarow]

Top ram. 17” bases. A little over 39” on his right and a little over 36” on his left horn. Close to 180”

 

[T Bone]

Like it has been mentioned.....listen for head butts! We heard them every other day or so in 27. It can take fustrating hours or days to put eyes on them! Stick with it!

This is just an observation.....when you find a group of rams, I often see the bigger rams bed uphill of the dinkers. Less chance of a sucker punch! I've noticed that more often than not.

Also, look for sign. Specifically ram rubs. They thrash bushes, rub trees and rocks with those horns often.

Sheep hunting in the Frank is something special! Soak it up!

 

[1_pointer]

Like it has been mentioned.....listen for head butts! We heard them every other day or so in 27. It can take fustrating hours or days to put eyes on them! Stick with it!

This is just an observation.....when you find a group of rams, I often see the bigger rams bed uphill of the dinkers. Less chance of a sucker punch! I've noticed that more often than not.

Also, look for sign. Specifically ram rubs. They thrash bushes, rub trees and rocks with those horns often.

Sheep hunting in the Frank is something special! Soak it up!

The one I helped a buddy with was only spotted after we heard them knocking heads. Crazy how far that sound carries. IMLE in that country, I'd focus on knowing being able to judge what's legal and not worry about the rest. We had a hard time finding rams, so we didn't have much of an option of worrying about judging them...

 

[Huntnut60]

Love looking at the pictures of all the BIG rams, but is it fair posting pictures of B&C rams and sheep with 16/17 inches bases. Forgive me for asking because I have not looked, is a ram this size even remotely possible in the unit they are going to be hunting? If the average ram is 34/35 inches with 15 inch bases, shouldn't we be posting rams that size to give him a realistic idea what to look for?

 

[BigHornRam]

Love looking at the pictures of all the BIG rams, but is it fair posting pictures of B&C rams and sheep with 16/17 inches bases. Forgive me for asking because I have not looked, is a ram this size even remotely possible in the unit they are going to be hunting? If the average ram is 34/35 inches with 15 inch bases, shouldn't we be posting rams that size to give him a realistic idea what to look for?

There was a real nice ram that was often seen around the Shoup area that they called the Centennial Ram. It died of old age and was a dandy. That's the fun part of having a tag like this, never know what you might run into.

 

[Sawtooth]

I too enjoy the monster rams in this thread, but rest assured, the pictures of the 150-160 rams are also getting a good once over. We are hoping with our scouting trips and looking at pictures of other rams from the area, we will have a good sense of whether or not we should put in the effort to get closer on a ram we are looking at through a scope a mile away. One mile in this country can take a half day to cover. Thanks so much to everyone for educating my friend and me on this new adventure of sheep hunting. This community of hunters is a great group of men and women.

 

[phutch30]

Heres a few tips I have from my sheep hunt in 2007. I ended up looking over about 50 individual rams repeatedly over 10 days. I ended up shooting a 191 p&Y

-This is a biggie..Call the area biologist and get the harvest data. They will have base measurements and horn lengths. If for example the average ram has 15.5"bases then you can use that when looking at sheep to say most of them look average but "that one" is heavier than normal. This was a huge help to me cuz without getting my hands on one I couldn't tell. The one I shot was visibly heavier than the others...16"+ bases in a unit where 15.5-15.75 was the average base circumference.

-A broomed ram will score more than one with lamb tips (if close to equal on length) as it pulls the 4th quarter circ back generally even if a couple inches shorter in length.

-Look for horns to drop below the jaw line, this adds a couple inches to the length to one that doesn't drop below the jaw line..a full curl ram with horns below the jaw will be 40" or better one that doesn't will be around 38

-Look for a bulge at the back of the horn base...older bigger rams will have it...this adds to the base circ ...on a MT ram you can see it from a couple hundred yds away

-look for narrow gap on the head at the bases indicating more base mass

- look for horn bases to be like a 4x4...it may not make sense reading it but it will after looking over some mature rams...big rams bases look heavy like a 4x4

 

[CBender09]

This almost isn't nice to send this one, but if you should see something like this shoot it! This is the new World Record Bighorn from Montana.
48 3/8 by 49 6/8 - 16 1/2 bases - third quarter measurement 11+ inches! 216+ B&C score

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That’s things sooo heavy. And the posts in the beginning, say you should be able to fit a volleyball in the curl. Not always. There’s no way you’d fit a volley ball in that, gotta look for the mass, and make sure the mass is carried towards the ends, like this one (extreme example though).
As far as curl goes, make sure it’s a nice, even circular curl. Some almost drop straight down from the highest point, then continue the curl towards the bottom. Ill try to show some pictures later to show what I mean later. But you can lose a lot of length there.

 

[CBender09]

That’s things sooo heavy. And the posts in the beginning, say you should be able to fit a volleyball in the curl. Not always. There’s no way you’d fit a volley ball in that, gotta look for the mass, and make sure the mass is carried towards the ends, like this one (extreme example though).
As far as curl goes, make sure it’s a nice, even circular curl. Some almost drop straight down from the highest point, then continue the curl towards the bottom. Ill try to show some pictures later to show what I mean later. But you can lose a lot of length there.

First 2 look like very solid, full, nice curls.
Last 4 are what I meant by the curl being too tight, and not really circular, but more straight.