Muleys or Whitetails

[Ithaca 37]

carbon, Since you're such a wiseass, what are your methods for telling buck and doe tracks apart? I bet you can't even tell which direction the deer is going! Have you ever hunted whitetails?

sneakem's method is one good clue, but I think you need more to be real sure.

Sorry, A-con, I can't see your posts. Remember the list?

 

[BuzzH]

Sneakem,

Mule deer mostly go nocturnal after the bullet hits them...

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I'm waiting for the ways to tell how many points the buck has from his tracks. Not doubting or anything, as I know nothing about whitetails - just waiting to see if I can learn something.

 

[carbonarcher]

C'mon Ithaca, I'm just waiting for you to learn me, didn't you recognize a plea from a lesser hunter. Damn, I thought you could track a bird through the air: ....sure would have thought you'd recognize a plea for your help.

BuzzH, I've seen your picture and I don't know you and you don't know me either. But I appreciate your stating facts you have no way of proving. Thanks for your contribution.hump

 

[BuzzH]

Carbonarcher,

I know this fact, I've seen Ithaca sitting next to 4 or 5 very dead wild sheep of three different species that most people will be lucky to even see in their life. From the looks of things, he sure as hell knows how to judge thin-horn sheep.

Thats for starters.

Care to post up the pictures of your 3/4 slam...plus two???

 

[JB]

how deep the track is when he steps in a soft spot

was that in the book you read or did you see that on CSI?


i will not pretend to be an expert on telling weight by the size and depth of the deers track but i did notice a couple years ago when i killed a 260# 9 point(wt) that i had seen a few weeks prior to killing........the scrape's that this deer was making were 1 1/2" deep and when he scraped the ground he moved plenty of dirt.....however, he left no clues to how many points he had

I'm waiting for the ways to tell how many points the buck has from his tracks.

i hope your not holding your breath!

 

[schmalts]

190 and 170 is the minimum for the all time records, so your in the ballpark according to B&C

 

[Ithaca 37]

OK, I have some time to type now. It's been a busy day. First of all, I'm kind of embarrased to have to explain such basic deer hunting science to Hunt Talk members, but maybe that's why it's called Hunt Talk. All talk and not much hunting from most guys.

Here's what I posted that started all the uproar: "Last year I found a track of a nice whitetail buck about twenty two inches wide with ten points and tracked him for three days and never got a glimpse of him. He was a heavy buck for Idaho, probably around 240 lbs live weight. I never could tell how much mass his horns had, but I bet he was real heavy."

That's when all the shit started flying from the nimrods who apparently think it's impossible to tell how many points a buck has and how wide he is by tracking him.

Here's what happened with that particular buck. We had about 10 inches of fresh snow. Perfect tracking. I knew he was a good one from the size of his track, the width of his shoulders and hips and his stride so I took out after him. The track was about three hours old. (For those of you who are going to get all atwitter about that, it had stopped snowing about two hours earlier and the first tracks I saw had a little snow in them. He wasn't moving very fast and after a few hundred yards there wasn't any more snow in his tracks). Plus, it was warming up and that affects the edge of the track. Deer tracking 101, right? Aging tracks usually isn't too hard, depending on the temperature and a few other conditions. Look at your own track first.

This was an easy one to antler size. Ever notice how fresh snow hangs down over the edge of a spruce bough kinda like it hangs down over the eaves of your house? After following him awhile I noticed two small cuts in the snow hanging from a bough he walked under. They were about 19 inches apart and made by his longest tines, naturally. Now look at the tallest tines on a decent size buck. They usually curl inward just a little. I figured this one curled inward about one and a half inches inside his widest spread on each side. Well, I wasn't exactly sure about that immediately, but it was a good educated guess after seeing clue number one. Add it up and he figured to be about twenty two inches wide. Here's an interesting thing about bucks and their horns. They have a great sense of where there horns are, kinda like us and the top of our head. A buck's not going to bang his horns into a branch he's walking under and make a lot of branch movement and noise, just like some of you who have any brains probably wouldn't. I'm not too sure about a few of the guys who have been questioning me. What's interesting is that they don't mind letting their longest tines cut thru the snow that's hanging off the bough like they have a six sense of where the actual wood is. They don't hit the branch and dump a lot of snow on their back, unless maybe they're running, but when they're walking they can let the tines cut thru the hanging snow and not touch the branch.

Clue number two came a while later when he stopped to sniff something under the snow and his antlers stuck into the snow. Four points on each side. We have to assume a buck that size had brow tines so now we know he had at least ten points, maybe a another one or two short ones or stickers near the brow tines, but I'm talking here about the main tines. Also, by carefully pushing the snow away from where the longest tines stuck in I could confirm an average amount of curvature and add that to clue number one in guessing the spread.

So there you have it. Real basic deer hunting if you use a little common sense and know what to look for. Tracking doesn't mean just looking at the tracks, it means looking at everything the deer did. You can often see the number of tines when a buck is feeding in the snow or sniffing another track. The easiest situation is when he's feeding at the base of a bank or hummock and his tines stick in. Sometimes you don't even need snow. There's a few other clues to be looking for, too, when you're trying to figure out the buck's width and number of points.

You can tell when a buck is getting ready to bed down by reading his tracks. In that case you'll want to look ahead and figure out the best way to spot him first while he's in bed. Might have to back track and circle around. Remember, he'll probably be watching his track and have the wind blowing into him from behind and have some brush around him for listening purposes. Maybe even a barbed wire fence so he'll hear it squeak when a hunter pushes down on it to cross.

That stuff is kinda what you learn in deer hunting first and second grade. If you're going to make it to junior high you'll have to start tracking deer all year long and thinking about why they behave that way. Best time is right after deer season.

Now, for the wiseasses that don't think I can track birds thru the air, that's gonna be harder to get outta me, but I've already told a couple Hunt Talkers how to do it and they've been practicing and they're having some luck at it. Ya gotta understand bird physiology first. Anyone want to make a bet on this one?

carbon archer can kiss my ass. It's easy to see he doesn't know even kindergarten level deer hunting.

JB, "was that in the book you read or did you see that on CSI?" Just try watching some deer sometime and then go look at the tracks. Maybe you'll be able to see that the heavier deer sink into dirt more than the lightweights. Spend enough time doing it and you'll get good at judging weight from tracks, but you gotta look at the whole picture and look for the other evidence too, if you're ever going to be able to make an educated guess. One good way to learn is to track a deer after a rain when the ground is soft. See the deer, know how to judge weight, study the track more, then repeat on about a thousand more deer. You might eventually get it.

Here's your other wisecrack, "i hope your not holding your breath!" You must not know much about tracking. Now even you should be able to track a deer and tell how many points he has and his rack width. Try it someday when you can get off your lazy ass.

Carbon and JB, There's nothing much dumber than shitheads who start making wisecracks about things they're completely ignorant of. They really set themselves up to look like a fool.

 

[A-con]

What a load

 

[pa mt man]

For Ithaca from Acon,since he can't see it. "What a load. "

Of chit. From me to Ithaca.

 

[noharleyyet]

Makes sense to me Ith. Of course I simply glass them while they inspect the bear bait.

 

[JB]

I'm having a tough time figuring out where to start with the rest of the explanation on judging the rack from tracking the buck.

i could tell you were having a tough time coming up with an answer.
what with the long winded post about a bunch of nothing and then all of a sudden to be able to use the Mr. Meoggy with a twist of Mcgiver method of tracking in the snow storm trick.......the snow was almost as deep as your bullshit.

Last year I found a track of a nice whitetail buck about twenty two inches wide with ten points and tracked him for three days and never got a glimpse of him.

why did you stop after three days.......did the snow melt? ROFLMAO

Clue number two came a while later when he stopped to sniff something under the snow and his antlers stuck into the snow.

He probably triped and fell face first in the snow leaving a perfect impression.......because i read in a book that when they "sniff" in the snow they will move much of the snow out of their way with their legs much like they do when working a scrape......do not question this as to i have read this in all the books i could get my hands on .

There's nothing much dumber than shitheads who start making wisecracks about things they're completely ignorant of. They really set themselves up to look like a fool.

i couldnt agree more.

 

[carbonarcher]

See now Ithaca was that so hard? See the thing is you finally came through with an answer, not so difficult now was it? As far as me not knowing anything about tracking deer, I'm not exactly sure how you came to that conclusion. Was it because I didn't jump in and play your little game and tell you what I do or don't know about tracking big game? Or do you have the ability to read minds as well, as well as being a flying bird tracker?

Now you've written a big long post that makes quite a bit of sense about your ability to track deer. Thats very nice, and good for you. But it's nothing I couldn't have read in the latest interview of the Benoits in Outdoor Life. What was that old saying? If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle'em with bullshit.

Now as to my kissing your ass. I'm only 6'2". I'd need one hell of a ladder to reach an ass that is as high on a pedestal as you put yours on. You see, instead of coming right out with an answer when people called BS on you, you returned their jabs, thereby quite easily identifying yourself as a person who holds themselves above others. I'm kind of surprised you could see past the end of your nose so high in the air to identify deer tracks.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Wow! I mention tracking a deer and all hell breaks loose from a bunch of guys who don't even know basic deer tracking. If they had ever spent any time trying it or even knew a tiny bit about it they never would have questioned what I said. I certainly wouldn't if someone else had said it. I might have asked them how they knew the buck's size, just to see if I could learn something, but I sure wouldn't have any doubt about whether it was possible 'cuz I can do it myself!

So, carbon, that's how I knew you don't know anything about tracking. As far as reading the latest Benoit article goes, that would be a good place for you to start, but if you could have learned what I explained from a Benoit interview why didn't you? In one of his books he mentions a buck leaving horn imprints in the snow when it was eating something. I can't remember him ever saying anything about the "under the snowy bough" method, but I have no doubt he knows it. I'm sure he has hundreds of things like that he's never mentioned. It all boils down to being observent.

Tom Brown's books have lots of tips, too. The best way to learn it is to put your time in practicing it yourself.

carbon, you said, "You see, instead of coming right out with an answer when people called BS on you, you returned their jabs, thereby quite easily identifying yourself as a person who holds themselves above others."

I'm not good at tolerating wiseass fools who call BS on something they don't know anything about. Try asking politely the next time and maybe you'll get more respect. Generally you get back what you give. Did you notice what Calif. Hunter said? ----- "I'm waiting for the ways to tell how many points the buck has from his tracks. Not doubting or anything, as I know nothing about whitetails - just waiting to see if I can learn something." He's not a wiseass punk.

How about if you tell us some of the ways you tell buck tracks from doe tracks? I'd like to see if I can learn something new from you.

Now for JB: He wanted an explanation of how I knew the things I posted and I gave it, with enough info so anyone could see it made perfect sense. Then he posts a bunch of wiseass crap because he was shown to be a fool.

As for Acon and pa mt man, it's easy to see they don't know anything about tracking either.

I've spent thousands of hours tracking animals since I was a kid. I think it's kinda like reading a book, but a lot more fun. You'd be amazed at what you can learn from it or , sometimes, how entertaining it can be. It pays off in lots of ways, too.

Tracking birds thru the air can be easy with the right conditions. Pretty tough without them, but not impossible. Instead of giving me a lot of shit why not try it first and see if you can figure it out? A covey of chukars is probably the easiest place to start.

Here's a few deer I tracked to learn their routine and then helped friends get a day or two later:

 

[JB]

I've spent thousands of hours tracking animals since I was a kid.

Mr. Expert, did you ever get a "glimpse" of any of them?
maybe your not quite as good at it as you think dipshit.(i mean that in a nice way )

 

[carbonarcher]

Well it seems this wiseass fool has gotten under the rather thin skin of a self inflated blowhard. If there is one thing I've learned Ithaca from many years hunting and being in different camps, its that the one guy who probably knows the most and could probably teach me more than a thing or two is the guy who talks the least. You might want to chew on that one for a bit and let it sink in real good.

Also if you'll kindly reread my posts you will find that I never insinuated you could not track nor did I become a wiseass about your tracking skills until you commented that I didn't know how to track. I'm quite sure there is not one thing I could teach you about tracking Ithaca, you've pretty much said it all......

 

[A-con]

Anyone here who believes every word of Ithacas “legend in his own mind” tracking tales is the HuntTalk equivalent of a yearling Muley munching corn chips in Yosemite valley.

 

[Ithaca 37]

JB, I sure got a glimpse of the ones in the pictures. The young man was scheduled for Marine boot camp in a few weeks and wanted to try for a big buck, not knowing when he'd be able to hunt with us again.

The young woman had never seen a whitetail buck before and wondered if she had shot a good one!

It was the first day of whitetail hunting in Idaho for the guy that got the one in the snow!

carbon, "the one guy who probably knows the most and could probably teach me more than a thing or two is the guy who talks the least."

Believe me, I never would have said another word about tracking if I hadn't got so much shit from you and a few others after my original mention of it. I was amazed it started such a firestorm!

I'm still waiting for some tips on how to tell the buck and doe tracks apart.

 

[JB]

i got a glimpse of them too, does that mean im a expert now?

I'm still waiting for some tips on how to tell the buck and doe tracks apart.

doe will typically are wider in the hind leaving the hind tracks slightly wider then the front
big deal ass wipe.


when you realize how much you dont know you will be much smarter.

"He is a self-made man and worships his creator."

 

[noharleyyet]

Nice deer & good pics. Thanks.

...now, back to casual friday.