MTFWP now has a scapegoat...

BuzzH

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Jan 9, 2001
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Location
Laramie, WY
For their piss poor management of MT's big-game.

Check out this big pile of BS...





Archived Story
FWP may lower number of elk permits in Bitterroot, Lower Clark Fork basin
By ROB CHANEY of the Missoulian



Elk numbers in some parts of western Montana are so low, state Fish, Wildlife and Parks officials may dial back the number of hunting permits they release this summer.

“Something of this magnitude does not happen every year,” said Mike Thompson, wildlife manager for the FWP Region 2 office in Missoula. “If you'd asked me about this two months ago, I've have said ‘no problem.' But we've never seen such a low proportion of calves to cows across such a broad landscape as we did this year in the Bitterroot.”

The Lower Clark Fork River basin west of Missoula has equally troublesome elk survey numbers. And while the Blackfoot and Upper Clark Fork River basins east of Missoula are healthy, whitetail deer numbers are suffering.


FWP's board meets in Hamilton on June 25 to review the statistics and decide how to respond. Thompson said a likely plan would reduce the number of cow elk permits awarded from the June 1 license drawings.

Although FWP already published the number of permits available for each hunting district, Thompson said that quota is based on the previous year's research. FWP commissioners get fresh winter and spring population surveys before their June meeting. They're authorized to deviate from the published permit quotas if the surveys indicate a problem. And this year, there's a problem.

Biologists have a long shelf of data from aerial surveys of the mountains on the east and west sides of Ravalli County. It shows cow-calf pairs are significantly down compared to past years, even though it was a relatively poor hunting season in 2008. That means something else killed the calves over the winter and spring.

The information is less precise in the Lower Clark Fork, because the elk tend to appear in smaller, isolated herds in deep forest cover and are therefore harder to survey by plane. But the surveys that are possible show similar slips in elk calf survival.

Explaining why is a tougher matter. Thompson said wolves, lions and bears combine with the weather to affect calf survival. Wolves in particular have increased in number in those areas. So have lions and bears.

Wolves have gained ground in the Blackfoot and Upper Clark Fork basins, but elk numbers remain strong there. On the other hand, whitetail deer populations are hurting, and increased predation is a strong suspect.

The deer numbers are low enough that Region 2 hunters won't be able to buy B tags for antlerless deer over the counter as they could last year. FWP spokeswoman Vivica Crowser said that decision came down earlier this spring, although it may still catch some hunters by surprise.

In addition to tweaking the hunting license numbers, FWP hopes to exert some control over the predators. Lion quotas should increase this fall and winter as the big cat population is reaching troublesome levels.

A wolf hunt remains uncertain. While the federal government removed gray wolves from the endangered species list last month, several conservation groups sued to block new wolf hunting seasons in Montana and Idaho.

Thompson said even if a Montana wolf season survives the legal challenge, it's unknown how effective hunters will be in reducing wolf numbers. Unlike state and federal animal damage hunters who get to use helicopters and traps to quickly remove outlaw packs, big-game hunters would have no such special advantages.
 
Nice, Buzz. Yeah, the article raises a sticky point with me that I've had for years and that is the notion of plane surveys. Personally, I don't believe most F&G is anywhere close to being accurate -- I'd like to assume their survey numbers are not "cooked", but as to how their numbers relate to the 'total population'...that's another story.
 
What's the real story, Buzz? Too many tags in the past?
In NM, the G&F will take a unit that is really doing well, issue thousands of cow elk permits for several years in a row, then spend years studying why the populations are down. Sounds like job security.
 
Thats the least of the problems that MT is facing...

They blame wolves, lions, etc. and that isnt the problem...far from it.

How about 2 additional deer "b" antleress tags over the counter...another B-tag through the draw as well as an A-tag...so 4 deer per hunter in most of the areas they say the whitetail numbers have declined.

Really? Who'd a thought an 11 week season with up to 4 tags per hunter could impact the whitetail population? They must be building rockets in their spare time at FWP.

Also, high antlerless quotas in the Bitterroot for years and years. No mandatory checking of antlerless elk being killed...hmmm. How about a week long (with no quota) cow elk season in most of Blackfoot drainage with the check station only being open 2 of the 7 days? Pretty tough to say how many elk you're killing without even having a check station open.

Oh, but, thats right...its the wolves, bears, and cats that are taking a toll...

Time for the hunters, FWP, etc. to wake up!
 
The real story here in the Bitterroot is over harvest by hunters through very liberal seasons since 2004, restrictive mountain lion seasons for the past 9 years (FWP caved to the local hound hunters)and increasing wolves.

FWP should have seen this coming. Exactly what happened in the Gallatin. Increase the wolves and keep issueing huge numbers of cow permits and you get declining elk numbers.

IT amazes me the reaction of hunters to this story. They blame wolves 100% while bitichin that the new regs will keep them from getting their cow. Also crying to FWP to start a wolf season. They simply do not understand the ESA.

FWP should have seen the increase in predators and scaled back the either sex hunting after the 2005 East Fork massacre, but ohh no they powered right through it, totally ignoring the screams from the local sportsmen group. Either sex hunting for 3 weeks, lots of cow permits, and unlimited cow hunting for youths.

FWP even proposed for the 2006-2007 season structure UNLIMITED A-9 B-12
archery licenses, which would have meant a second elk, hell in HD 250 we shouldn't even be killing one. Our sportsmen club got this shut down here in the Bitterroot, damn good thing.

OTC second whitetail doe tags spelled the decline in deer, another thine we screamed should have been stopped years ago, almost all whitetails on public land have been removed.

On the bright side we got rid of a poor Bio, and FINALLY have a BIO that gives a shit about big game,,,lets just hope its not to late.
 
Tjones pretty much summarized the situation. We've been screaming into a deaf mans ear now for the years leading up to the last Bio leaving and heading up north. You boys in the Madison watch out. I predict it'll take lost opportunity to get your attention though. Good thing FW&P's has wolves to blame or we'd have lynch mobs.
 
It says ADC gets to use heli's and traps, but the big game hunters have no such advantage.

that bothers me a little, i am not from Montana, and as you guys have stated predation probley should be the least of their concerns. but i read into it that trapping would not be allowed if their is ever a wolf season? I think after the wolf adjust's to hunting pressure, it would be damn near impossible to kill one.

so that leaves it up to trappers. I am not saying to give trappers an unlimited quota, give them a set number of tags according to the district.I think the few trappers left alive that are worth a damn would be very successful, and in the process maybe teach a youngster the dying art of trapping with the leg hold trap.
 

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