MT upland opener reports

[OntarioHunter]

First limit of the year. Hunted my arse off all day only to shoot three in the last hour of daylight. Knocked a rooster down early in the morning but he got up again and flew away before Ellie could grab him.
Edit: We're not going anywhere today. The dogs are beat. Too sore to get up and eat. And this is a Lab I'm talking about!

 

[OntarioHunter]

Not for upland birds, surprisingly.

Blaze orange is required for hunting uplands on the federal refuges I hunt in Montana (anyone know about requirements for CMR?). That came about after vice president Dick Cheney shot his hunting partner in the face quail hunting. A better response to that would have been to make it illegal to hunt when drunk. Which is, by the way, the law in Ontario.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Orange for upland hunting is not a federal regulation. That is a Bowdoin special, put in place by a former manager I believe. No other eastern MT refuges require orange to upland hunt. But I probably would during an open rifle season on CMR.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Orange for upland hunting is not a federal regulation. That is a Bowdoin special, put in place by a former manager I believe. No other eastern MT refuges require orange to upland hunt. But I probably would during an open rifle season on CMR.

I wondered about that. Several years ago an elder staff member there (perhaps the manager) gave me shit for not wearing orange. I pointed out that it wasn't required. He left in a huff and next year I see wearing orange for uplands is in the Bowdoin literature. That's about the time they also started their ridiculous crusade to eliminate Russian olive ... which seems to have abated this year ... thankfully. I'm hard pressed to understand the logic in removing shade trees during a global warming crisis, especially when the trees provide food for wildlife. Not all exotic species are invasive.

 

[Hunting Wife]

I'm hard pressed to understand the logic in removing shade trees during a global warming crisis, especially when the trees provide food for wildlife. Not all exotic species are invasive.

First, shade trees have nothing to do with climate change. Plus this area was native prairie and sage long before folks started planting Russian olive. Shade trees were never a “thing” here.

Second, Russian olives are highly invasive and are regulated plants in Montana. Other states have added them to the noxious weed list and they are now illegal to plant I believe. They outcompete native shrubs and deplete water. They SHOULD be removed.

 

[OntarioHunter]

First, shade trees have nothing to do with climate change. Plus this area was native prairie and sage long before folks started planting Russian olive. Shade trees were never a “thing” here.

Second, Russian olives are highly invasive and are regulated plants in Montana. Other states have added them to the noxious weed list and they are now illegal to plant I believe. They outcompete native shrubs and deplete water. They SHOULD be removed.

Right. Deforestation has nothing to do with climate change. What have you been reading? Besides consuming CO2 and producing oxygen, shade trees keep the surface cool and reduce evaporation. As far as water depletion goes, Russian olive trees undoubtedly give more than they take. I only have to walk around in the groves at Bowdoin and see the lush green grass there and even springs of water (check out the north end above hqs) ... then compare that to the parched areas on the south end where every single tree and shrub has been cut down ... except the cottonwood ... which the beaver have all killed (apparently they don't care much for the taste of Russian olive). Russian olive provides cover and food for wildlife. Native cottonwood and sage brush does little or nothing in that department. And Russian olive can provide excellent protection against wind erosion, which is I believe, why they were introduced in the first place. Again, the thinking that everything introduced is invasive is problematic. What has ringneck pheasant and Hungarian partridge displaced? We are not going back to roaming buffalo and people who remove each other's scalps for entertainment. Accept that some of the changes we have made to the historical "natural" environment can be beneficial. And some simply cannot be undone.

 

[406dn]

In recent years locally the Russian Olives have been largely eradicated. I would think the owner of where I board horses removed a few hundred from his property, his neighbor removed as many. The BLM removed them from their parcel on the river bottom. It is tremendous improvement imo.

The big problem is that Russian Olives volunteer themselves all over the place.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Right. Deforestation has nothing to do with climate change.

Putting words in my mouth is a huge pet peeve of mine. Point to the line I typed that said deforestation has nothing to do with climate change? I’ll wait….

What I said was removing non-native, invasive trees from a place that did not have trees until European settlement is not causing climate change. It is an exceptional leap to call removing invasive non-native trees from native grassland snd sage steppe “deforestation”.

Plus you do realize grasslands and grassland birds are the most imperiled system in North America, right? And woody species encroachment is a prime reason?

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Todd-Grant/publication/232667607_Tree_and_Shrub_Invasion_in_Northern_Mixed-Grass_Prairie_Implications_for_Breeding_Grassland_Birds/links/5fcea85245851568d1497bc2/Tree-and-Shrub-Invasion-in-Northern-Mixed-Grass-Prairie-Implications-for-Breeding-Grassland-Birds.pdf

Russian olive provides cover and food for wildlife. Native cottonwood and sage brush does little or nothing in that department.

Really? Sage grouse, mule deer, pronghorn, grassland birds, sagebrush obligates and many other native species would disagree with you.

Even Pheasants Forever recognizes that Russian Olives are not great for upland birds.

Brushing Up For Winter

Depending on where it’s growing, brush comes in just two flavors — good and bad. Provide excellent winter habitat for upland birds by planning out your woody cover.

www.pheasantsforever.org

Yes, pheasants like Russian Olives. You know who else likes them? Great-horned owls. Buteos of all kinds. Magpies. In other words, some of the biggest predators of pheasants and nests. You know where you will rarely find pheasant nests or young broods? One guess. Just because pheasants use them in the winter doesn’t mean they are great for pheasants.

I can’t think of a single place I hunt pheasants that has Russian Olives. The pheasants do just fine without them.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Putting words in my mouth is a huge pet peeve of mine. Point to the line I typed that said deforestation has nothing to do with climate change? I’ll wait….

What I said was removing non-native, invasive trees from a place that did not have trees until European settlement is not causing climate change. It is an exceptional leap to call removing invasive non-native trees from native grassland snd sage steppe “deforestation”.

Plus you do realize grasslands and grassland birds are the most imperiled system in North America, right? And woody species encroachment is a prime reason?

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Todd-Grant/publication/232667607_Tree_and_Shrub_Invasion_in_Northern_Mixed-Grass_Prairie_Implications_for_Breeding_Grassland_Birds/links/5fcea85245851568d1497bc2/Tree-and-Shrub-Invasion-in-Northern-Mixed-Grass-Prairie-Implications-for-Breeding-Grassland-Birds.pdf

Really? Sage grouse, mule deer, pronghorn, grassland birds, sagebrush obligates and many other native species would disagree with you.

Even Pheasants Forever recognizes that Russian Olives are not great for upland birds.

Brushing Up For Winter

Depending on where it’s growing, brush comes in just two flavors — good and bad. Provide excellent winter habitat for upland birds by planning out your woody cover.

www.pheasantsforever.org

Yes, pheasants like Russian Olives. You know who else likes them? Great-horned owls. Buteos of all kinds. Magpies. In other words, some of the biggest predators of pheasants and nests. You know where you will rarely find pheasant nests or young broods? One guess. Just because pheasants use them in the winter doesn’t mean they are great for pheasants.

I can’t think of a single place I hunt pheasants that has Russian Olives. The pheasants do just fine without them.

View attachment 200906

I see plenty of mule deer in Russian olive. They like the shade and cover. I see more raptors in cottonwood or bull pine. A lot more. In fact, I cannot ever recall seeing an owl or a hawk in Russian olive and I have hunted in the stuff for decades. Goshhawks are extremely maneuverable in thick cover but I doubt even they could handle Russian olive thickets. Sure see a lot of sharpies in the stuff. So much for displacing prairie bird species. Sharpies utilize the trees for feed and roosting. Much safer than hiding for the night among sagebrush. Magpies are everywhere but I don't see any unusual proliferation of them in Russian olive. They hang around the calving sheds a lot though so maybe we should get rid of those too? I would think Russian olive would be the kind of stuff magpies would like to nest in but I've yet to see a nest on the refuge. Not sure I've seen more than a couple of magpies there. I don't doubt pheasants do not prefer Russian olive for nesting. They want to hear anything approaching (they have extraordinary hearing). Tall grass is probably preferred. But it's obvious they don't hesitate to feed in the stuff once the young can handle eating the fruit. I have shot second hatch roosters in Russian olive that should have been wearing eggshell helmets.

The prime reason grasslands and grassland birds are imperiled is agriculture and urban sprawl. The impact of Russian olive is debatable and, in comparison, miniscule.

I'm not saying that Russian olive doesn't need to be controlled - it can spread rapidly, but at the refuge it doesn't make sense to try eradicating it. First, the stuff clearly has more benefit that harm. Even if they could get rid of it all, and they never will, it would do no good to turn the place into a sunbaked salt pit. Russian olive provides cover, feed, protection from wind and heat, prevents soil erosion, and provides desperately needed soil nutrients in places where it's needed (it is a nitrogen fixing species).

 

[Hunting Wife]

Yes. Russian olives and wolves will save the world

 

[TheJason]

That's about the time they also started their ridiculous crusade to eliminate Russian olive ... which seems to have abated this year ..

Why wouldn’t they try to remove a non native invasive? Burn them all.

 

[TheJason]

I truly can’t believe some of the stupid shit I am reading as of late. I see owls all the time in Russian olive groves. They serve no long-term benefit to native wildlife that a restored grassland system wouldn’t provide instead. Next thing I know, I’m going to read about how mule deer always have twins or triplets, and moose calves take three years before the wean off the cow. Oh wait, I already did

 

[406dn]

I truly can’t believe some of the stupid shit I am reading as of late.

So would that be nitrogen fixing of a sort?

 

[Hunting Wife]

I truly can’t believe some of the stupid shit I am reading as of late.

I think we’re severely outgunned. I’d consider running to Canada for asylum, but…

 

[mtmiller]

I think we’re severely outgunned. I’d consider running to Canada for asylum, but…

#burningshit
#spewingshit

 

[OntarioHunter]

I truly can’t believe some of the stupid shit I am reading as of late. I see owls all the time in Russian olive groves. They serve no long-term benefit to native wildlife that a restored grassland system wouldn’t provide instead. Next thing I know, I’m going to read about how mule deer always have twins or triplets, and moose calves take three years before the wean off the cow. Oh wait, I already did

Do your homework. Mule deer typically do have twins after the first drop. Ask any biologist. And moose MAY take up to three years to raise a calf. Commonly two years. A lot depends on which of the three fall/winter ruts the cow gets bred. Because they are solitary animals, they have to find each other for sex. Very much hit and miss, especially with hunters in the field chasing them. First rut is in September, second end of October or early November, and third rut in December. Consequently, there can be considerable size difference in young moose. If she doesn't get bred the second year after the calf is born, a cow may keep it with her till the next fall, especially if it's a runt. Not common but I have seen it. I have also seen cows with that year's calves and yearlings. Many times.

Lo and behold wouldn't you know it I saw a raptor today in a Russian olive tree. A young one I've seen a couple of times on that end. It was having a heck of a time keeping his balance on that spindly branch in the breeze. The other night it sat on a fence post while Ellie stood underneath and looked at it. I got within ten feet and called her off. It never left. Weird. I saw three other raptors today including an eagle. All in cottonwood trees.

If a bald prairie is so essential to wildlife, why aren't we stripping the bull pine from the Breaks? Or getting rid of all the willows? Grasslands are essential to raising cattle. Therein is the significance.

I hunt birds in Russian olive habitat almost exclusively now. It's where the pheasants and sharpies will be found. On public land anyway. They will fly into the acres of tulies when pressed but always come back to the olive groves. There is no nutrition in cattail fuzz. And I typically hunt all day walking out at night after hours, usually at least a couple of miles. Again, I have yet to see or hear an owl in Russian olive. They may be there, but in my experience certainly not in any abundance. Mostly I see owls sitting on fenceposts. Quite often actually.

You should make more of an effort to act your age.

 

[TheJason]

You should make more of an effort to act your age.

Should I act like I’m older and just start making shit up?

 

[AlaskaHunter]

Before we left Alaska to winter in western MT,
my dog got a shot for Leptospirosis.

We don't have heartworm or tick problems up in AK,
I assume that would not be a problem in western MT from Nov-March?
Thanks.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Do your homework. Mule deer typically do have twins after the first drop. Ask any biologist.

Sooooo, you’ll believe a biologist about that, but not about pheasant habitat, Russian Olives, shrub encroachment in grasslands, predator use of trees….

You are unbelievable.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Before we left Alaska to winter in western MT,
my dog got a shot for Leptospirosis.

We don't have heartworm or tick problems up in AK,
I assume that would not be a problem in western MT from Nov-March?
Thanks.

Never hear of it much out here, but it is present and expanding. However if you’re only here in the winter shouldn’t be much of an issue for you.

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