MT Sheep Hunter Fined

[dannyb278]

Head over to the B&C Facebook page. Nothing but sympathy for this guy. One guy asked me how the shots were "ill advised" if the two shots resulted in lethal kills. That's the logic a lot of hunters are working with these days.

1 tag. 2 bullets. 3 dead animals. I would most definitely call that ill advised.

 

[belly-deep]

You can know 100% what is near your target and you can walk (or run, or crawl, or set up an ambush and have them walk up to you) up there and check it out before you shoot. I've been doing it for 33 years.

You must be one hell of a hunter if you can go up to an elk and examine what is behind it before shooting.

Point is, you could shoot through a broadside bull and hit a spotted owl that was sitting on a branch behind it.

You can never be 100% sure.

 

[Dan O]

This has been a very interesting discussion. The Monday Morning Quarter Backing is 20-20 as usual. I guess it boils down to first the guy messed up he got buck fever. Sounds like he thought about doing the wrong thing first, but his partner talked him into doing the right thing. His next big mistake he went to court representing himself. People who represent themselves have a fool for a client. He did not know the loop holes and got hammered because of it. That's not anyone's fault but his own. The system worked.
This spring there will be many of us out spring bear hunting. Who will take the time to make sure they are not about to shoot a sow that may have cubs???? Will you see, shoot then check for cubs, or do the right thing and take the needed time to be sure of your target prior to pulling the trigger? Are you the type to try to hide your screw up if you shoot a sow with cubs. Will you leave the cubs or shoot them then SSS.
This all boils down to you have to be responsible for your actions. Looks to me some here look at that a bit differently than I do.
Dan

 

[James Riley]

You must be one hell of a hunter if you can go up to an elk and examine what is behind it before shooting.

Point is, you could shoot through a broadside bull and hit a spotted owl that was sitting on a branch behind it.

You can never be 100% sure.

I never thought I was a hell of a hunter until I started studying all the morons in the woods. I usually spend days with an animal, if not weeks, before I kill it. Not to mention the preceding hours and minutes. If there is a spotted owl around then I probably forgot about the elk and I'm studying the bird.

 

[tjones]

I never thought I was a hell of a hunter until I started studying all the morons in the woods. I usually spend days with an animal, if not weeks, before I kill it. Not to mention the preceding hours and minutes. If there is a spotted owl around then I probably forgot about the elk and I'm studying the bird.

Elk whisperer?

 

[belly-deep]

I never thought I was a hell of a hunter until I started studying all the morons in the woods. I usually spend days with an animal, if not weeks, before I kill it. Not to mention the preceding hours and minutes. If there is a spotted owl around then I probably forgot about the elk and I'm studying the bird.

Ok dude. If you say so.

 

[mtmuley]

Elk whisperer?

Yep. mtmuley

 

[James Riley]

Needless to say, I don't kill a lot. I'm easily distracted by all that is going on around me. And more so as I get older.

 

[Gr8bawana]

You can know 100% what is near your target and you can walk (or run, or crawl, or set up an ambush and have them walk up to you) up there and check it out before you shoot. I've been doing it for 33 years. I bow hunt, I occasionally hunt black powder and I rarely hunt rifle, but when I do, I still keep it around 30 meters and I still spend time with the animal(s) before shooting. And you don't have to be that close or hunt like me to avoid the mistake this guy made. You just have to quit making the excuses for yourself that you are making for him.

You must be the most awesome hunter out there if you can be 30 meters from an animal, "spending time the animal" , then run around the animal to see what is around it to be sure all is safe, and the animal never know you're there. YOU ARE AMAZING!

 

[James Riley]

You must be the most awesome hunter out there if you can be 30 meters from an animal, "spending time the animal" , then run around the animal to see what is around it to be sure all is safe, and the animal never know you're there. YOU ARE AMAZING!

Lol! This must be what belly deep was talking about, with you just messing with me. Because that's what friends do and we're friends, right? It's hard for me to use half my brain but I'm starting to see what he meant. Lol!

P.S. I guess Belly Deep was talking about GH but I still get it. Tip o the hat to BD, the resident hall monitor. LOL!

 

[MJE2083]

If the fine,restitution,punishment or whatever is the same whether you turn yourself in or try to hide it,lie,cover-up then the issue is morality. If you can live with yourself then you are not going to turn yourself in, its as simple as that. I don't go "turn myself in" every time I drive over the speed limit. So we all have a level of acceptability with any issue.

 

[James Riley]

If the fine,restitution,punishment or whatever is the same whether you turn yourself in or try to hide it,lie,cover-up then the issue is morality. If you can live with yourself then you are not going to turn yourself in, its as simple as that. I don't go "turn myself in" every time I drive over the speed limit. So we all have a level of acceptability with any issue.

Usually the fine and punishment are more if you do not turn yourself in. Restitution is usually based on, well, restitution, so there is not as much discretion involved there.

Funny you should mention the speed limit thing. When I was a prosecutor I had a cop bring a kid into my office. The kid had stopped the cop and told him he had been speeding, on accident (speedometer not reading right). The cop had not busted the kid. I told the cop I'd handle it. I talked to the kid and told him how much time and money it would cost the state to mess with it, even if he plead out. I told him to fix his speedometer and move on. Now, had the little bastard been busted by the cop and given him shit, then things probably would have gone a different direction. I had discretion.

When you turn yourself in, and when the authorities have discretion, they tend to go easy. And, when caught going easy, some "law and order" conservative type usually raises a ruckus, tries to get you fired, runs against you for office, or petitions the legislature to take judicial discretion away.

P.S. The kid was one of those remote, rural, strange, odd, ranch kids. I guess that matters.

 

[The Hedgehog]

First it was bcat.
Then elk cheese.
Now it's James Riley.

 

[James Riley]

First it was bcat.
Then elk cheese.
Now it's James Riley.

Followed by my buddy Greenhorn, messing with me.

Here's your new sig line: "Doing the "right thing" was clearly not the right thing."

 

[katqanna]

Today I got another two components of my FWP Game Warden research. One of them was the Public information request that the Helena IR put in for the last years worth of warnings and citations involving whitetail poaching. I was glancing through the 30 page pdf when a warning, yes a warning, caught my eye.

It was on Nov. 20th, 2015, on a CMR road. A guy self reported that he shot a whitetail buck and it passed through, killing a doe.

Another warning issued Nov. 15th, at the Bonner Check station for accidentally shooting two whitetail bucks, he was allowed to keep first, 2nd taken, just a warning.

So FWP does have the ability to issue warnings for such an event - at least for white tails.

 

[James Riley]

Today I got another two components of my FWP Game Warden research. One of them was the Public information request that the Helena IR put in for the last years worth of warnings and citations involving whitetail poaching. I was glancing through the 30 page pdf when a warning, yes a warning, caught my eye.

It was on Nov. 20th, 2015, on a CMR road. A guy self reported that he shot a whitetail buck and it passed through, killing a doe.

Another warning issued Nov. 15th, at the Bonner Check station for accidentally shooting two whitetail bucks, he was allowed to keep first, 2nd taken, just a warning.

So FWP does have the ability to issue warnings for such an event - at least for white tails.

That might have happened here if it were a simple shoot-through to the ewe; but two trophy rams and the ewe, plus circumstances we aren't aware of, who knows. I tried a simple google search and got squat. Do you have access to the judges findings of fact, conclusions of law and order/judgement? He/She is required to make them. They might flesh out the details. I don't know if they publish that stuff on line in Montana.

 

[RobG]

Today I got another two components of my FWP Game Warden research. One of them was the Public information request that the Helena IR put in for the last years worth of warnings and citations involving whitetail poaching. I was glancing through the 30 page pdf when a warning, yes a warning, caught my eye.

It was on Nov. 20th, 2015, on a CMR road. A guy self reported that he shot a whitetail buck and it passed through, killing a doe.

Another warning issued Nov. 15th, at the Bonner Check station for accidentally shooting two whitetail bucks, he was allowed to keep first, 2nd taken, just a warning.

So FWP does have the ability to issue warnings for such an event - at least for white tails.

I'm guessing the difference is that the bighorn was judged a trophy, and as such, the fine is mandatory. Just guessing... I'm not familiar with the exact law.

 

[belly-deep]

Do you have access to the judges findings of fact, conclusions of law and order/judgement? He/She is required to make them. They might flesh out the details. I don't know if they publish that stuff on line in Montana.

The order will read "the defendant pled guilty and the court ordered 30K" in restitution

 

[James Riley]

The order will read "the defendant pled guilty and the court ordered 30K" in restitution

Not according to Ben Lamb's post: "87-6-905. Finding required for restitution. Before restitution may be ordered pursuant to 87-6-906 or 87-6-907, the finder of fact at trial or the court upon entry of a guilty or nolo contendere plea shall find that the illegal killing or possession was done knowingly or purposely as defined in 45-2-101."

I don't know about MT but in every court I've ever been associated with the judge will make written findings of facts specific to the individual case before the court which justify accepting the plea. These are missing from our august record here on HT. Maybe MT is different but I doubt it.

 

[Oak]

The trophy surcharge for bighorn in CO is $25,000, and is discretionary. The guy could have killed many more here and gotten a lighter fine.

On September 29, 2012, Colorado Wildlife Officer Kim Woodruff was contacted about a possible bighorn sheep that was poached near Hecla Junction in Chaffee County, Colorado. An Operation Game Thief (OGT) dispatcher told CWO Woodruff that a person camping in the Hecla Junction area heard shooting and later found two dead bighorn sheep rams. Obviously concerned, Officer Woodruff immediately contacted the reporting party (RP) by phone.

CWO Woodruff learned, through her conversation with the RP, that several shots had been heard by witnesses in the Hecla Junction area. A short time later, one of the witnesses saw a bighorn ram roll down the mountain side. Another witness stated he spoke with two men who claimed to be sheep hunting. The witness asked them if they shot at any rams, and when they stated they had, the witness pointed to the area where the fallen ram had come to rest and told them they had one down. According to the witness, the two men seemed nervous but retrieved the ram and left the area.

Based on the reactions of the two men, the observant witnesses took photos of the hunters and of their vehicle‘s license plate. Still thinking something wasn‘t right, the RP told CWO Woodruff he crossed the river after the two men left and found two additional bighorn rams that appeared to have been shot and left.

CWO Woodruff knew that there was only one bighorn ram license given out for the rifle season, and that Thomas Clevenger was the applicant who drew the sole license for 2012.
When CWO Woodruff arrived at Hecla Junction, CWO Ron Dobson was on scene. CWO Dobson had already collected written statements from the witnesses and begun a search of the area from where the shots had reportedly come. CWO Dobson was able to find several spent .270 rifle casings scattered up and down the river bank.

CWO Woodruff and the original RP crossed the river to inspect the two dead bighorn sheep. As CWO Woodruff started the necropsy, she was able to find a copper jacket in one of the ram‘s shoulders. CWO Woodruff also noticed, based on the current stages of decomposition, that one sheep appeared to have been dead only a few hours, while the other appeared to have been dead for several days. Both of these sheep were very visible from the locations where CWO Dobson found several empty .270 rifle casings.

After a lengthy search and no other evidence discovered, the officers left and returned the following day to continue their investigation. On September 30, 2012, CWOs Woodruff and Dobson resumed the search. After a short time combing the area, they found a fourth ram that appeared to have been shot and left, as well. The fourth ram had obviously been dead for several days and scavenged upon. CWO Dobson was also able to find another spent .270 rifle casing, bringing the total number of rifle casings to six (6).

That same day, CWO Randy Hancock called Clevenger to ask how his sheep hunt was going. Clevenger told CWO Hancock he harvested a ram but it took him six (6) shots. According to Clevenger, he only shot at one ram he and his hunting partner took the day before. Clevenger told CWO Hancock that he used his .270 caliber and only hit the ram one time.

Clevenger took his ram into the Fort Collins Parks and Wildlife Office to complete the mandatory check form. On his form, he indicated he had hunted most of the month of September and had seen several rams during the course of his hunt. Earlier in the season, Clevenger was contacted by a Parks Ranger and admitted then to have ―got a shot off‖ but didn‘t get a kill.

On October 29, 2012, several officers conducted interviews and executed a search warrant on Clevenger‘s home. Clevenger and his hunting partner both denied shooting at or wounding any bighorn sheep other than the one Clevenger took home and ultimately checked in. CWOs Woodruff and Hancock seized a .270 caliber rifle and ram horns from Clevenger. Officers submitted the rifle, the spent casings and the copper bullet jacket to the United States Fish and Wildlife Lab in Ashland Oregon. The results of the testing confirmed the casings were fired from Clevenger‘s rifle.

After consulting with the Chaffee County District Attorney‘s Office, Clevenger was charged with 13 misdemeanors. A plea offer was extended through the DA‘s office and Clevenger agreed to plead guilty to illegal possession of a bighorn sheep, which carries an additional Sampson penalty, as well as failure to pursue wounded game. In all, Clevenger was ordered to pay over $25,640.00 in fines and faces a lifetime suspension of his hunting and fishing privileges.